Phosphate problem. Have questions.

[Sdoutreefer]

My tank is relatively new (has been up with fish and corals for about 3 months). I have a bad algae problem. A couple weeks ago i tested for nitrates, and they were existant, but low. I put in a bag of CPE and has been in the system for a week. The algae seems to worsen by the day. Ive cut my lighting period back dramatically. I sometimes have them off for a couple days at a time. I have been doing a 5g water change 3 times a week, and have contemplated doing a 100% water change, but since my tank is fairly new, im worried it may mess up the colonization of the beneficial bacteria my tank needs.

So question, will phosphates be lowered naturally? What is the best way to lower my phosphates? Will GFO be better than CPE? GFO or BioPellets? Will a 100% water change be beneficial?


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[mayday610]

What are your phosphate levels? Also, what are you using for a water source when mixing salt for your water change? What size is your tank? As much detailed info as you can provide will help us give more informative answers.

 

[shellynjason]

First of all you definately need a Hamma Checker for phospates. Only use RO/DI water, don't ever use tap water if you want to keep coral. I too have high phospates and just bought a BRS reactor and HC GFO from Bulk Reef Supply. I started it up on Saturday when my phospates were .41 and now 5 days later my Hanna Checker reads .21 so IT WORKS!! But you really don't want to lower phospates to fast so what ever the instructions state of the amount of HC GFO for your sized tank - only use half to start with and let it stew for 2 weeks or so before slowing adding more HC GCF.

Phosphates do cause algae ... but on the flip side removing phosphates TO FAST and you may cause a cyno bacteria outbreak ... so do it SLOW.

 

[Sdoutreefer]

When i tested for phosphates, I was using an API test kit, so they showed zero. I haven't been able to get my hands on a decent test kit yet, but plan to get a salifert phosphate test kit very soon. As far as water changes go, I have been using RO/DI water for both my changes and top offs. The tank is a 40b with a 30g sump, with a reef dynamics INS80 skimmer. I have a two little fishies phosban reactor, but have not been using it. I still need to get a pump for it and was planning on using it once phosphates became present, which they are now. Before plunging into using a GFO i understand I need to get a hold of a test kit. I'm in college, so forking out the money for both at one time will be a struggle :squigglemouth:. Should I wait to get a hold of a high quality test kit, or just get some GFO and add SLOWLY??

 

[mayday610]

Yeah, the API phosphate tests are not very good. I've always gotten zero as a result even when my other test kits read otherwise. In my opinion, you should go for a good test kit first. Its a better idea to know what your parameters are so that you can monitor if any of the adjustments you are making are doing anything. You can easily throw money out the window if you are buying hardware to get rid of something you don't know is there or in what amounts. There are other means of lowering phosphates, such as water changes and adding macro algae to your system. Things such as macro algae are cheaper, and a long term natural reducer. Of course, once hardware is acquired, its relatively inexpensive after that just buying media, but its still a chunk of change to start with. Just a quick question, how old are the filters in your RO/DI unit and do you have a TDS meter?

 

[Sdoutreefer]

I get my water from my LFS and he just replaced his filters about 3 weeks ago. The owner said the TDS readings of his RO/DI water are fine..

 

[mayday610]

I get my water from my LFS and he just replaced his filters about 3 weeks ago. The owner said the TDS readings of his RO/DI water are fine..

Of course they are fine, they are the ones selling in

 

[KevsReef]

I would use GFO and nitrate sponge. Nitrate sponge would lower your nitrate if under 1ppm to 0 in a week. Not a fan of bio pellets regardless of which brand. definitely use GFO.

 

[Sdoutreefer]

Of course they are fine, they are the ones selling in

Haha nooo, I trust this guy. Ive been buying from him for a while and help around his shop frequently. But you never know about some people!

GFO it is then. During my water change today i vacuumed a section of my sand for the first time my tank has been running and holy cow! I knew my sand would be relatively dirty but had no idea it would pull out black stinky crud! Im thinking that the dirty sand could definatly be a culprit to my tanks problem. Another vacuuming of a section of sand is on the agenda for tomorrow along with a large water change!


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[fragmatic]

When i tested for phosphates, I was using an API test kit, so they showed zero. I haven't been able to get my hands on a decent test kit yet, but plan to get a salifert phosphate test kit very soon. As far as water changes go, I have been using RO/DI water for both my changes and top offs. The tank is a 40b with a 30g sump, with a reef dynamics INS80 skimmer. I have a two little fishies phosban reactor, but have not been using it. I still need to get a pump for it and was planning on using it once phosphates became present, which they are now. Before plunging into using a GFO i understand I need to get a hold of a test kit. I'm in college, so forking out the money for both at one time will be a struggle :squigglemouth:. Should I wait to get a hold of a high quality test kit, or just get some GFO and add SLOWLY??

So you really do not know your PO4 is high. The only test you did was zero. API is not that bad of a PO4 test kit. It could simply be what you are feeding and how much. I will take a guess and say you are feeding dry granular or flake food. Regardless, try not feeding for a few days, it won't hurt the fish. Then if I am right, buy a good frozen food, if I am wrong go to NEXT.

NEXT: Do you have enough live rock? You need enough live rock to home enough bacteria to process the chemistry in the tank. You have plenty of sump, and a skimmer, is the skimmer producing plenty of dark green smelly gunk?

ELSE: Run the GFO and carbon for a while, while you build up bacteria count in your live rock.

 

[mayday610]

GFO it is then. During my water change today i vacuumed a section of my sand for the first time my tank has been running and holy cow! I knew my sand would be relatively dirty but had no idea it would pull out black stinky crud! Im thinking that the dirty sand could definatly be a culprit to my tanks problem. Another vacuuming of a section of sand is on the agenda for tomorrow along with a large water change

Good find. You should not have this build up if your sand bed is functioning properly. How deep is your sand bed? And was this area in the open or under rockwork? Unless you have improper flow or sand depth, its probably safe to say that you found the grave of a snail or some other critter.

 

[Snookin]

Buy a TDS meter and test the LFS's water too. Should be zero.
I trusted my LFS too but I had algae outbreaks from the water.
Buy a RO/DI unit and a TDS meter. Do your own water changes and make your own saltwater. It will not only save you money in the long run, but you will know what is being put in your tank. Better safe then soory.

 

[shellynjason]

I have a API phosphate test kit and it shows zero always, then I got a hanna checker and was surprised to see I had .81 phosphate level. In the last 5 weeks I slowly got it to .41 using the filter socks in my canister filters. Then last week I started the HC GFI and within five days my phosphates were down to .21, I just cleaned/refilled the HC GFO because it was exhausted. So it definately works and go slow.

Can you find a local reef club in your area and 'beg' someone to let you borrow their Hanna phosphate checker - I'm sure someone would be helpful.

 

[Sdoutreefer]

Thank you all for the input. Last week I purchased a salifert Po4 kit along with some aquamax GFO. I tested the day I got it and the test vial was clear, giving a reading of 0, which could be possible, but Im still unsure why I have new algae growing. Im hoping to get a pump for my reactor in the next couple days so I can start running GFO. Im still looking for someone to lend me their hannah Po4 checker for a more accurate reading. Would you all suggest getting a reading from the hannah or would it be ok to start my GFO without a reading?

The directions on the GFO say to use a gram per x amount of water volume... All I have are basic measuring spoons/cups, so what exactly does a gram convert to?

 

[Isoprene]

You might have PO4 seeping out of the rocks you used. Where are the rocks from? Dry or Live from the start and did you properly rinse them? Did someone use them in a previous tank? My friend had a similar problem, nitrates and phosphates register zero in the water bcause your algae is soaking it all up and anything the rocks have in them could be feeding the algae.

 

[Sdoutreefer]

Im beggining to think Po4 is in fact leaching from the LR. It is Tukani LR. I ordered it in August, and it was in a tank curing until October or so. Not sure how to tell if it is leaching or not, but if it is leaching is there anyway to help get it out? Or will time correct the problem? Ive upped my water changes to 15g a week, 10g on mondays, 5g on thursdays, along with sand bed vaccuming. The vaccuming has dramatically cleared the algae from my sand bed, FYI. I have dipped a large rock and a few smaller pieces in peroxide, and gave them a good scrub down while soaking. It definatly killed the algae, as well as the coralline and some zoas. I started to dip rocks last week, so It hasnt been a very long time to see if it truely worked.

 

[shellynjason]

Phosphates are definately leaching from my Live rock. I changed my GFO last friday, my hanna read .11 phosphates. Then the next day they went up instead of down and within 4 days my phosphates were up to .15. I just changed out my GFO again today at 4:30pm and tested once more at 6:30pm and my phosphates are now .06. In my experience over the last three weeks the GFO absorbs the phosphates in the water column until it is saturated, all the while the live rock continues to release any phosphates absorbed in it to equalize to the water column (if the rocks have more phosphates then the water column then more phosphates will leach out to equalize). So continue looking for a hanna checker for more accuracy because you won't know when to change your GFO out without knowing if the numbers are creeping up again like mine did.

hope that helps.

 

[Sdoutreefer]

I want to use the low checker right? And will the rocks stop leaching Po4 overtime? Is there anything I can do to help remove the phosphate from the rocks?

 

[shellynjason]

Yes you want the low checker for phosphates. As for how long it takes to leach the P04, well that is a great question because I am still dealing with it myself. I started with .41 phosphates and at week 3 I am still having leaching issues. Right after a GFO media change my phosphates go down to .06 (about 2-3 hours after changing it) but then the next day it is back up to .11.

 

[fragmatic]

Let's correct a possible misconception, your phosphates, nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia are never actually zero. The idea is to keep them at such low levels our kits can hardly detect them. Your algae and bacteria handle that job, converting in an on going process. This explains how you can have algae and think you do not have any PO4. That algae is doing a service. This is another reason a refugium is a popular item to have in your system. You can grow lots of algae that is not in the display tank where we want to keep it from being ugly. If there were no PO4, NO3, NO2, and NH3/NH4 it would mean there were no life processes going on. These are some of the key chemistry of life.