mak060
Reluctant Zoa Collector
BTW. I think the photo examples given in this thread a pretty benign. These, on fragglereef, have brown skirts to the naked eye. I was fool enough to buy them. Note, you also can't tell what size they are.
Photoshopping is getting old
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Ocho Cinco
Active Member
Yeah I'm with you. I will never rely on a pic when I'm buying a coral. I also hate it when people zoom in on a single polyp. When you look at a coral that's not how you see it. You can't see those zoomed in textures and colors with the naked eye. Thats why I hate when people show off their sweet stuff with a sweet camera and all altered.
Paintguru
In need of tank
1. I believe Junior has shown that you can modify any coral color and still have the general scene look like it is at a particular kelvin temperature. This would likely be true of a color bar too.
2. I think all people really need to do is take a picture from far enough back to include the plug or surrounding area. I don't see how one could easily get a length gauge into the picture, but if people know of a cheap way to do it, I'm all ears. The best way I know is to take the picture on a piece of eggcrate, which everyone knows the dimensions of.
3. What tank actually runs lighting that is "daylight"? Daylight is ~6500K, and most people aren't running at that. I typically state that pictures are taken at a particular kelvin temperature (if selling) and let the buyer decide how it will look in their tank. For eye candy pictures....who cares.
THE BEAUT
Luv Golf
I must say a aggree with most on this thread. Esp sps pics that are extreme closeups. The worst are the challice pics, that are the new hot item. Closeups with no surroundings. I use a cheap PAS and have never used photoshop, honestly i couldnt care about wasting time to even figure it out. Once you have the white balance set on your camera you shouldnt have to do anything. But i do understand some of you guys that take awesome pics that need to crop them, but that should be it. Shame on the people that photoshop there pics just to con some poor sucker that does not know any better.
Saltysteele
Bret
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^^^^ +1
also, again, this is why you buy from people you know, or have had good experiences with
also, again, this is why you buy from people you know, or have had good experiences with
Briney Dave
High School Marine edc.
I like to shot in raw too when I have the time and yes you do have to set a few things to get a "finished product" I am not at all against editing, just (as many have said) don't make something that are not there. I mean that for even eye candy sake as well.
There are too many guys who would take your "for fun" pic and use it as a guide for what they are trying to sell.
And most importantly I am NOT calling anyone out, just saying what has been on my mind and it appears many others as well. It is important to me that no one take hard feelings from any of this. Unless you were trying to con someone with a wonder coral.
then feel free to feel bad about it!!!! LOL
I am just as much a seller be right as buyer beware sort of guy.
There are too many guys who would take your "for fun" pic and use it as a guide for what they are trying to sell.
And most importantly I am NOT calling anyone out, just saying what has been on my mind and it appears many others as well. It is important to me that no one take hard feelings from any of this. Unless you were trying to con someone with a wonder coral.
then feel free to feel bad about it!!!! LOL
I am just as much a seller be right as buyer beware sort of guy.
mak060
Reluctant Zoa Collector
There's a catch 22 weaving in and out of this thread. To know people, you have to have started with faith, gut feeling, and a stab in the dark. I believe Emc relayed something to this effect to me once. A famous researcher once told me, "If you only rely on the past, you'll never discover anything new." So as much as I usually agree with the advice of the sages, it is not fully helpful to say only go with people you know. Even "good" sellers vary in their practices of photo-enhancement--they're not all bad or all good. I admit I'm ignorant and need advice, and may I do so for the rest of my life.
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I think we need to change to term "photoshopping" to something else.
Not using photoshop is like an film photographer not using a dark room.
Using a digital image straight from the camera is like taking a disposable camera to walgreens to get printed.
Proper use of photoshop is absolutely vital in ANY pics from out tanks.
Camera's photo sensors cannot decipher color temps over 9600k (pretty close on the number, might not be exact), much less a 20k bulb, and even further, an actinic.
Please understand, that for many people, what you see is the best they are capable of. Its not something you pick up over night.
If the colors are totally off the wall, than look in the brightest points of the brightest colors, if there is NO detail within that area...chances are the picture was over saturated.
But please, dont make assumptions that all crazy colors are the product of over saturation. Lighting from tank to tank can play an incredible role, obviously.
When I switched to Aqua Science T5's, the color went from pretty good to out of this world. Unfortunately is took a couple people doubting my corals true colors to see them first hand in my tank before they would believe it. Lighting is everything, just saying you have a 20k halide, or a T5 doesn't mean squat.
Anyone who knows there stuff about halides is well aware that the variables are endless. Every bulb gets a different look with every different ballast, leaving endless color variances.
Having said all that, are their shysters out there who are trying to rip people off? absolutely, but is it fair to group everyone into that category? Absolutely not.
All i ask is that everyone educates themselves in the workings of photoshop before making blanket statements that photoshop users are ruining the hobby, and trying to cheat everybody.
Its pretty obvious when a coral has been REALLY juiced up, so just be aware to the signs, and you can avoid getting scammed.
Not using photoshop is like an film photographer not using a dark room.
Using a digital image straight from the camera is like taking a disposable camera to walgreens to get printed.
Proper use of photoshop is absolutely vital in ANY pics from out tanks.
Camera's photo sensors cannot decipher color temps over 9600k (pretty close on the number, might not be exact), much less a 20k bulb, and even further, an actinic.
Please understand, that for many people, what you see is the best they are capable of. Its not something you pick up over night.
If the colors are totally off the wall, than look in the brightest points of the brightest colors, if there is NO detail within that area...chances are the picture was over saturated.
But please, dont make assumptions that all crazy colors are the product of over saturation. Lighting from tank to tank can play an incredible role, obviously.
When I switched to Aqua Science T5's, the color went from pretty good to out of this world. Unfortunately is took a couple people doubting my corals true colors to see them first hand in my tank before they would believe it. Lighting is everything, just saying you have a 20k halide, or a T5 doesn't mean squat.
Anyone who knows there stuff about halides is well aware that the variables are endless. Every bulb gets a different look with every different ballast, leaving endless color variances.
Having said all that, are their shysters out there who are trying to rip people off? absolutely, but is it fair to group everyone into that category? Absolutely not.
All i ask is that everyone educates themselves in the workings of photoshop before making blanket statements that photoshop users are ruining the hobby, and trying to cheat everybody.
Its pretty obvious when a coral has been REALLY juiced up, so just be aware to the signs, and you can avoid getting scammed.
sleeper
Active Member
I think that things like this tend to go in cycles. I also believe that the majority of people don't participate in these practices and it is a few bad eggs that stirred this pot. I personally choose to buy everything from a LFS or local trade. Editing a coral to make something look better than it is will probably continue to happen untill the retailer gets his bottom line hurt. I also think that what is good for your local shop is good for the hobby. So, just support your local shop if you have one and eventually things like this tend to even out.
OP
OP
flricordia
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This is a straight shot from a digital camera. It is a Canon Powershot A570 which is an outdated point and shoot. No one HAS to use photoshop.
kitten0304
Active Member
while i agree morals are in order, in some light it is imposible to see what the coral looks like unless you have the proper camera to fix it. I have 20k 400w si mh with luminark reflectors everything looks blue no matter what i do i have a kodak easyshare camera and its not forgiving, plus if the pic was raw and you dont know what looks good raw you probably wont be buying that coral.
Your camera did the processing for you... If you shoot RAW data, then YES you have to use photoshop. Here are some things that you may not care about, but as a professional Wedding Photographer I do... RAW images may have up to 2 stops more detail in shadow areas. RAW images will preserve details in WHITE on white, like a wedding dress, where the in camera jpeg processing will lose that detail.
Once you are used to processing RAW images, and you know what your camera and yourself are capable of, you won't let the camera make those decisions anymore.
So to say that "No one HAS to use photoshop" is a gross misunderstanding of the science of photography.
Russellaqua
Coral Junkie
Here is a Duncan of mine under XM 20k halide without being photoshopped:
Here is it after:
The second pic is a bit oversaturated as some of the detail is lost in the lower left corner, but it is a much truer representation of the actual coral. I'm just not good enough with Photoshop to get it 100% perfect, and no picture is perfect.
Here is it after:
The second pic is a bit oversaturated as some of the detail is lost in the lower left corner, but it is a much truer representation of the actual coral. I'm just not good enough with Photoshop to get it 100% perfect, and no picture is perfect.
OP
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flricordia
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But the whole thread thesis is not altering the pic's lighting but over saturating the colors as many sellers do. I think some are taking this thread to far off course with the lighting thing.
If you are over saturating your colors to make them look better then they are in real life than that is not right.
And it is obvious to most all that have kept zoanthids when pics are altered, though some programs are very good at altering the colors without being able to tell they have been altered.
If your pics are appearing blue then by all means change the lighting source, which most all photo programs have an edit feature for, but do not over saturate the colors to make the zoanthids appear blood red when they are in fact only reddish and that under any k value lighting.
If you are over saturating your colors to make them look better then they are in real life than that is not right.
And it is obvious to most all that have kept zoanthids when pics are altered, though some programs are very good at altering the colors without being able to tell they have been altered.
If your pics are appearing blue then by all means change the lighting source, which most all photo programs have an edit feature for, but do not over saturate the colors to make the zoanthids appear blood red when they are in fact only reddish and that under any k value lighting.
I think the beef here is that there are a lot of oversaturated, overcorrected photos on the internet. Up to that point, it's easy to relate. Can I tell everyone to stop by saying, "Look at me. I don't have to do it."? I know what you're trying to say, but a blanket statement like "no one HAS to use photoshop" is bound to solicit responses.
Without getting technical... The thing is that taking and editing photos are each separate disciplines in themselves. Both require knowledge, practice, and a little artistic talent. I can't blame someone who doesn't have enough experience or an artistic eye for doing something any more than I would like to be called out for not being able to sing with perfect pitch.
Also, color is very subjective. I guarantee that a room of 10 people will have at least one person who cannot pass a color blindness test with 100%. Many people who aren't considered color blind (such as myself) will miss one or two questions out of ten. Photoshop can be tricky to manage for that reason alone.
Combine all of that with the millions of NEVER calibrated monitors of different makes and models. It's easy to screw up colors by accident alone. The trick is to figure out when it's done intentionally. If you can read a person's intention, tell me the secret! Otherwise, I let it slide. Some people can't help it, literally... like my singing.
Without getting technical... The thing is that taking and editing photos are each separate disciplines in themselves. Both require knowledge, practice, and a little artistic talent. I can't blame someone who doesn't have enough experience or an artistic eye for doing something any more than I would like to be called out for not being able to sing with perfect pitch.
Also, color is very subjective. I guarantee that a room of 10 people will have at least one person who cannot pass a color blindness test with 100%. Many people who aren't considered color blind (such as myself) will miss one or two questions out of ten. Photoshop can be tricky to manage for that reason alone.
Combine all of that with the millions of NEVER calibrated monitors of different makes and models. It's easy to screw up colors by accident alone. The trick is to figure out when it's done intentionally. If you can read a person's intention, tell me the secret! Otherwise, I let it slide. Some people can't help it, literally... like my singing.
Saltysteele
Bret
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This is a straight shot from a digital camera. It is a Canon Powershot A570 which is an outdated point and shoot. No one HAS to use photoshop.
very nice pic. i saved it, opened it up in cs2, and the levels are all pretty close to being spot on, to where i would adjust them (hard to explain, unless you knew what i was talking about). had i shot that in raw, those are the colors that would have come from me out of cs2, minus a little. It cut the levels slightly short, and you may have gotten a tad more color out of them. however, there is more i would have done (sharpness and a couple other secrets of the trade
), and would have liked to have had more in the image to work with. Like i said, nice pic. But imagine how nice it would have been had it been shot in raw and processed.i don't mean to turn this into a pis**** match, but like i said, it irks me when people talk about processing photo's as a bad thing. you chose to let your camera make decisions for you, which is fine. i like to make the decisions.
the funniest thing is MOST of the photos everyone agues about as being over "photoshoped" are the ones where to photographer doesn't know what hes doing, and the photos are cropped, and thats it.
If you dont know what to set your camera at, and aren't using yellow lights, or a flash, the photos WILL come out crazy crazy blue...
thats really the issue more than anything.
Then there a few that do what you say, and go crazy with saturation...
If anyone looks at them, and has a clue, they should know right off the bat that they are not at all realistic.
If you dont know what to set your camera at, and aren't using yellow lights, or a flash, the photos WILL come out crazy crazy blue...
thats really the issue more than anything.
Then there a few that do what you say, and go crazy with saturation...
If anyone looks at them, and has a clue, they should know right off the bat that they are not at all realistic.
Maybe what we need is another thread with a tutorial on using photoshop. I wish I knew more about using it. When I edit my pics, I usually crop them. Sometimes I will adjust light levels a tad bit. That's about it. I know there's so much I can do to make my pictures turn out better...I just don't know how!! LOL
