Please advise!! Persistent light brown algea?

[brandon429]

Not your exact invader but close

A mini model full kill and sustain demo done three yrs ago
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/329681-possible-dinoflagellates-and-calothrix/

 

[ReelRednekReefer]

Good read! Actually it would be difficult to tell the 2 apart. Possible 2 similar subspecies.

I will pull the two doses rocks and put them in a bucket of tank water. Would a household 40w CFL lamp be adequate to test?

Feel free to link this as you asked. If it helps someone else with this headache my work will not have been in vain.

 

[brandon429]

Yes will use the example! it's like a polypeptide chain of algae cure threads heh

In four years this one you are running will have been linked due to key words hundreds of times. Predictably peroxide will beat this invader down it just takes work and maybe spot catch ups to account for full coverage reversal. If I had to place money I'd say your invader will be literally wiped out by peroxide and that's even the weakest dosage available. I use 35% it's a wonder any hard substrate survives lol

Peroxide isn't the only way for sure, just an option but we keep that rascal well documented.

Your 3% applied externally then left unscrubbed I bet mows on through it as a test.

I see the lamp as optional unless you are trying to purposefully grow it while killing it which is actually fine. At least you'll know its photosynthetic in that kind of lighted test.
If you gain ground against it even under white lighting that favors all algae, then peroxide is indicated well

 

[ReelRednekReefer]

Once I verify this is the fix. How do I dose the tank? What is the minimum dose, seeing that the nem didn't care for it much?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I for one. As you clean the rocks bit by bit would hold of on full tank dosing.
As you noticed the tank is being dosed by what's left on the rocks. If it's staying off the scrubbed rocks ad is working. The erosive already in the tank will be working too.
As your not sure on how much is in the tank as its not been a measured dose. It might be wise to see how it goes for a bit. Let it get stabilized and go from there. Kinda like chemotherapy.

 

[ReelRednekReefer]

The suspected Chrysophytes have been on the run. I've got trace, slow growing amounts on just a couple rocks, down at least 90%. WC yesterday of 15% (20g) was quite clear. Scrubbed rocks, what algea was there gave up the hold easily. Cleaning glass only once a week is sufficient. Did notice a bit of what I suspect is diatoms orangish brown dusting on one rock and highest lit parts of sand bed, but nothing I'm worried about as it took 3 weeks to even start to show. I think it was there all along but was covered by the Chrysophytes or out competed by it.

I got busy and didn't pull the 2 peroxide dosed rocks, however they are still clear. If I have to dose them again it will be a isolated test. However the peroxide did bleach/kill any and all coralline on the test rocks.

Added several new acan frags which are all doing well and softies are opening more and seem to be brighter so things must be on the mend.

Water changes have been every 2 weeks the last 3 times so I'm going to push it out to 4 weeks and see what happens. If all is well at that point. then I can resume normal maintenance and focus on dosing to treat any new emergencies of the Chrysophytes.

All of this may be a mute point because I just realized I pulled all the air fresheners several weeks back...... As someone stated I skewed my results from being definitive, however my maintenance was lacking so nutrients were adding to the problem even if they weren't the source of it.

Will keep this updated as things progress.

 

[ReelRednekReefer]

Found a LFS near me and he had some nice scans which I bought last week. They are doing great. He seemed real knowledgable and confirmed that what I have is in deed Chrysophytes, due to (most likely) the aerosol room fresheners. He had the same issue I guess.

He also explained why ( we think) my ph won't get above 7.9 despite a constant fresh air intake to skimmer, cheato in the sump with a light on it 24-7.........dogs. I never thought of it. There are 2 adults , 2 kids, a large dog, 2 small dogs and a cat in my house at least 1/2 the time. No wonder ph is down! Must be borderline toxic now that I think about it!!

They also offer a testing service and the baseline is free, so I took in a sample. Alk was 8, Ca 420, ph 7.9 nitrates 0 but pO4 was 0.08. Which is why I'm guessing I am seeing some diatoms. Now that the Chrysophytes are all but gone, the diatoms I never got initially are going to hit until the silicates burn off. Right?

Gonna have to get a Hannah checker, then I'll do a large water 50% water change and see if it drops to 0.04. Then check several days later and see if it's leaching from my rocks or if i simply need to change gfo more often.

Also going to buffer to get ph up which should also bring up alk.

 

[brandon429]

See if you can find 7.9 ph being a problem in Randys chem threads, many 7.9s are not deemed action worthy given healthy corals and like you said good aeration and alk


Venting the house for air is perfectly good idea but I wouldn't do chemical additions past what we're doing to the target in my opinion

If CO2 retention can be demonstrated in the cup test then it would be a great idea to work on venting in my opinion



You had an obligate hitchhiker it is not param related, it's non quarantine caused and nothing else.





These species are marine specific animals. He is getting confused with white slime which can be brought about by the air fresheners and through environmental contamination of the slime which is not necessarily Marine in origin

Chrysophytes are obligate hitchhikers in water or via substrate, not via aerosol which air fresheners imply... That's white slime search these key terms to see

Dr Tim Hovanec
White slime
Air freshener
35% peroxide

Those terms together will bring up the article mystery of the white slime which is what he's referring to- different species and different etiology here


it is very hard for us to see invasions as simple matters of non quarantine which is the vast majority.

 

[brandon429]

We should directly treat more rocks and hand remove as much as possible of it without chemical now that we know it will respond to chemicals

The additions of peroxide when added without the mass covering the rocks will really help or stop grow back

An oversized UV sterilizer would probably prevent grow back better than anything. That combined with a little bit of peroxide would cure your tank

Marine Depot the poster is taking pictures of rare Invaders right now to use in a video you should let him see your pics

 

[ReelRednekReefer]

The buffer is totally separate from the algea invader, which is all but gone. I would consider it cured since it's the least I have ever seen it , and what I do find isn't growing and looses its hold very easily. Which is why I moved onto other opportunity within he tank.

Buffer is intended to raise my alk with ph being a side effect, I said it wrong in my last post. The store sold me nothing but refill for my gfo and actually advised diy kalkwasser but I declined as I don't want calcium or alk to get to high since I'm not really sure on the science of dosing kalk.

Maybe I'm getting my terms mixed up. The images I've seen would indicate Chrysophytes however I couldn't tell the difference between either most of them. Whatever I have, he had something nearly identical in pictures of his personal tank. I removed air fresheners , treated with peroxide and ramped up husbandry all at the same time so my results are very skewed..... What can I say I was sick of seeing the stuff. He only removed the aerosols, but had good husbandry prior to invasion.

My ph has been low in both tanks I've had. It's not that it's causing problems per say, actually this is the best my tank has ever looked. I simply want to get all my parameters to "ideal" if possible to improve coral growth and color. Bringing alk up is 1st priority for that, then it was advised to add amino acids which I haven't got yet then worry about ph.



I really do appreciate your help so .....should I just let the tank sit as is, do my next water change in a month and see how the algea responds? Then if it hasn't regrown I can begin to work on other parameters?

 

[brandon429]

I do like that analysis above is good plan

Those are safe moves as you've mapped out. small underwater injections of peroxide on any remaining patches if any would loosen them up for removal in 24 hrs but I bet it will die anyway...once there major mass starts to die that community support wanes and then all individual cells die

Many algae are worse than this invader really it's just weird looking I recall no losses ever, yours is fifth one I remember approx. Rare kinda

Comparatively, if you had this much valonia it would be a done deal start over, species mattered here... only scary in groups but fall apart readily

 

[ReelRednekReefer]

@brandon429

Well I noticed that the 2 peroxide treated rocks began a regrowth. The one directly beneath the light was the fastest. I also recall that these were 2 dead coral skeletons that I picked up from 2 different LFS's for coralline introduction. Maybe it was carried from one of them?

Remaining rock has stayed clear. In an effort to prevent any further spread, I did as instructed earlier and quarantined them to a bucket with a PH. Unless someone recommends treating them again I'll leave them sit and monitor. No other changes have been made.

 

[brandon429]

I had to retreat my red gelidium a few times to get it out so far your details are looking good too for eventual control. If it regrew five times I'd be amazed

Also make sure no heavy whites on led balances those are driving lots of outbreaks lately

 

[reeferfoxx]

This is an old thread. I'm sorry. I went through everyones posts and before I remove my rock for h202 treatment, will this kill off my BB? Chrysophytes are photosynthetic however I have matrix in my media basket. If removing the rock for h202 kills the chrysophytes, will it come back due to the matrix? Or should I be more worried about my sand bed? All of my rock is man made rock and is growing on all of it.

 

[brandon429]

every single cycling thread and sand rinse thread I have with 20+ tanks in them are based on the fact we can't kill beneficial bacteria through any reasonable action shy of direct medication. we state they are the first to come upon hydration, the last to go upon drying, the strongest community in the interim during all the fun. as a community they are insulated, bulletproof if not meds, we can take action not ever factoring bacteria in those ways. we must factor loss of benthic micro life like pods and worms, and detritus stores, always.

Chrysophytes are likely anchored Reeferfox unlike diatoms or dinos you can just blow off, the rasping method of light substrate abrasion to actually clean/dislodge, -then- a post treatment of the area outside tank with peroxide, is ideal.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

This is an old thread. I'm sorry. I went through everyones posts and before I remove my rock for h202 treatment, will this kill off my BB? Chrysophytes are photosynthetic however I have matrix in my media basket. If removing the rock for h202 kills the chrysophytes, will it come back due to the matrix? Or should I be more worried about my sand bed? All of my rock is man made rock and is growing on all of it.

This is one of the biggest mysteries I have come across on R2R. Its mind bending. The peroxide is not killing it. period. All threads that have come up that I have read end like this. Dead ends.
If you recall I asked where you lived, your region. During the last year all cases I found on this and other forums were between virgina and the texas gulf coast. So I belive this stuff is from the carribean, fla etc. Makes sense as its shallow lagoons. On my coast most all of what we get for rock and coral is from INDO. deeper open ocean. Never see this. Never had diatoms or dino's either. AND I use water from the ocean.
Like cyano and dino this has to be fully saturated into the system and colonies proliferate in areas with the best light and food. SO its every where.
On man made rock, I believe(from cases here) its embedded with nutrients and coated with bacterial seed.(lots of cloudy water bacterial bloom probs) SO yea possibly a factor. On standard dry that gets infected Free Po binds to rock so maybe older rock are more susceptible. Oddly like this case it usually hits rock not sand. and of course non Photo can be replaced with higher nutrients in some dino cases.

all that said my theory, h2o2 is blasting the dissolved organics off the rocks and some of the cells of the alge yes and the may or may not slowly return. Again most cases the do. But the bandaid doesnt last and there has to be a trace mineral specifically in mixed salt that encourages growth, IMO likely silicates. With the high Po available on the rock and the high silicate content it kinda makes sense.

And no by BB you mean beneficial bacteria no it wont kill of the majority. IME rise and soak in salt water VERY well. I had odd reactions in PH some of my corals didnt like.

 

[reeferfoxx]

This was in June...


And this is Sep 1st...


This tank has never seen a bacterial outbreak like that witnessed with vodka dosing. Magnesium is high due to bad bucket of salt mix but that is the only thing. PO4 was an issue in the past but has since been taken care of. The cyano seen is going away. I related that to the PO4 and photoperiod. I've cut back from 8 hour to 6 hours and now 8 hours with only 4 hours being bright lights.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

This was in June...


And this is Sep 1st...


This tank has never seen a bacterial outbreak like that witnessed with vodka dosing. Magnesium is high due to bad bucket of salt mix but that is the only thing. PO4 was an issue in the past but has since been taken care of. The cyano seen is going away. I related that to the PO4 and photoperiod. I've cut back from 8 hour to 6 hours and now 8 hours with only 4 hours being bright lights.

DO you have a How do I cure this thread?

 

[reeferfoxx]

DO you have a How do I cure this thread?

I thought about starting one, I have no where to start though. I could throw everything at it and not see a change. H2O2 dosing didn't make a dent nor did malefix. I've tried Dr. Tims waste away and nothing. Only thing I have yet to try is ATS or Chaeto refugium. But PO4 is low and I'm dosing NO3. I thought maybe micro fauna was to blame so I've slowly seeded bristle stars, spaghetti worms and some aphipods. I've literally googled everrything I could without resolve or even where to start. Manual removal with rasping and H2O2 was my last resort. However, you are contradicting that success. Argh...

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I thought about starting one, I have no where to start though. I could throw everything at it and not see a change. H2O2 dosing didn't make a dent nor did malefix. I've tried Dr. Tims waste away and nothing. Only thing I have yet to try is ATS or Chaeto refugium. But PO4 is low and I'm dosing NO3. I thought maybe micro fauna was to blame so I've slowly seeded bristle stars, spaghetti worms and some aphipods. I've literally googled everrything I could without resolve or even where to start. Manual removal with rasping and H2O2 was my last resort. However, you are contradicting that success. Argh...

no not contradicting, just exploring. its really a fascinating problem, and like a "fascinating problembs" it sucks.
I dont want to derail a dead thread. Id like to hashtag the reef squad and some others.
If you can figure this one out I think they may decide to pay you.
its a question I think of chem mineral reduction or maybe some odd caribbean cuc.