This is why I figure out things for myself. If you ask for help on here there's too many conflicting opinions. It makes your head spin and then you don't know what to do. One walks away from here knowing less than when they started. Good luck!
Please help me with my Algae Issues
- Thread starter RyanHoan
- Start date
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I'm not a big fan of uv sterilizers. I don't like a sterile tank. Your tank is young. It shouldn't be at ULN #'s. Lower phosphate is worse than lower nitrates. Corals have a harder time taking in phosphate than nitrate. They are actually quite good at taking up nitrate. They get phosphate from organisms they eat. They don't take it out of the water.
Just_Pete
Well-Known Member
I’m dealing with Dino’s right now. Today I started my first treatment of dr Tim’s recipe for Dino’s. Your pictures look like mine. I’d look into the recipe and test your nutrients everyday. Not my video but this gave me hope...
Rick.45cal
2500 Club Member
What are your nitrates (NO3) at?
A UV sterilizer certainly isn’t going to hurt anything (in my opinion). It is important when you get it to make sure that you measure the flow through it, and make sure it’s slow enough to give you long enough contact time to kill what you need it to. Don’t plumb it through your return line and force as much water through it as you can, it won’t be as effective. It should come with some recommendations by the manufacturer as to what flow rates are acceptable, I would aim for the lower flow rate of the choices.
I am in the camp of people that thinks ID’ing it with a microscope is the best option.
A UV sterilizer certainly isn’t going to hurt anything (in my opinion). It is important when you get it to make sure that you measure the flow through it, and make sure it’s slow enough to give you long enough contact time to kill what you need it to. Don’t plumb it through your return line and force as much water through it as you can, it won’t be as effective. It should come with some recommendations by the manufacturer as to what flow rates are acceptable, I would aim for the lower flow rate of the choices.
I am in the camp of people that thinks ID’ing it with a microscope is the best option.
OP
OP
RyanHoan
Active Member
Thank you all for the help.
My plan of action:
- Add UV sterilizer
- Turn OFF refugium light
- Stop NOPOX
- Increase fish feeding
-only do as much water change as I need to manually remove Dinos
-HAULT aminos
-Test phos and nitrates every other day
Thoughts?
My plan of action:
- Add UV sterilizer
- Turn OFF refugium light
- Stop NOPOX
- Increase fish feeding
-only do as much water change as I need to manually remove Dinos
-HAULT aminos
-Test phos and nitrates every other day
Thoughts?
Ryan, the point of the UV is to burn benthic target cells that became pelagic/suspended even if thats not their nature, be removing your invasion 100% by target siphon and install the Uv in the clean condition tank if you want the best efficiency for your money spent.
removing the target is always missing from dinos threads, the masses demand you keep it in place.
UV burns particulates cast up into suspension caused by your physical work in the tank, even if they’re not usually a species that travels into the water column at night. uv is wise here
All pico reefs or just about all and many nano reefs do 100% water changes, which is the same as burning things with UV
can you find any pico reef in the world currently running with a dinos issue, why’s that? I can show you stunning reefs that use large water changes / equivalent to the harshest uv. Model their mode just for a while so you can siphon remove the target from crevices, it’s not changing water just to change water.
also big
lets see a pic of how the reef light looks when not taking identification pics is it blue or does it usually run this much white
organisms that make a communal mass benefit directly from the physical structure of the communal mass, it’s insulation like a spartan phalanx and it’s feed acquisition and many more offerings
removing the target mass so action or arrangement X has less to work on is wise, in all invasion scenarios, even well before ID is secured.
one thing you are doing is reinforcing the invasion: leaving it in place. The adjustments to nutrients are a great idea, but apply all fixes in the clean condition tank
do the physical work to rid your tank of the invasion it’s the price of big tank reefing, required so there’s no waste of corals. The reason to solicit advice for dinos prevention is to save you the manual work already saving the tank, there is really no reason to allow the invasion to be in place even for pics.
this mode of thinking makes reef tank invasions a personally responsible scenario vs an external not my fault scenario but this isn’t bad, it’s the direct way to save your tank among a bunch of guessing and hoping and waiting to see what coax will work.
be opposite of the masses for solid reef success
large tankers can not be off the hook for central locus of control reefing just because access is hard or impractical, losing any of the biosystem should be unacceptable. Clean tank pics coming in three hours?
then choose your best preventative mode.
removing the target is always missing from dinos threads, the masses demand you keep it in place.
UV burns particulates cast up into suspension caused by your physical work in the tank, even if they’re not usually a species that travels into the water column at night. uv is wise here
All pico reefs or just about all and many nano reefs do 100% water changes, which is the same as burning things with UV
can you find any pico reef in the world currently running with a dinos issue, why’s that? I can show you stunning reefs that use large water changes / equivalent to the harshest uv. Model their mode just for a while so you can siphon remove the target from crevices, it’s not changing water just to change water.
also big
lets see a pic of how the reef light looks when not taking identification pics is it blue or does it usually run this much white
organisms that make a communal mass benefit directly from the physical structure of the communal mass, it’s insulation like a spartan phalanx and it’s feed acquisition and many more offerings
removing the target mass so action or arrangement X has less to work on is wise, in all invasion scenarios, even well before ID is secured.
one thing you are doing is reinforcing the invasion: leaving it in place. The adjustments to nutrients are a great idea, but apply all fixes in the clean condition tank
do the physical work to rid your tank of the invasion it’s the price of big tank reefing, required so there’s no waste of corals. The reason to solicit advice for dinos prevention is to save you the manual work already saving the tank, there is really no reason to allow the invasion to be in place even for pics.
this mode of thinking makes reef tank invasions a personally responsible scenario vs an external not my fault scenario but this isn’t bad, it’s the direct way to save your tank among a bunch of guessing and hoping and waiting to see what coax will work.
be opposite of the masses for solid reef success
large tankers can not be off the hook for central locus of control reefing just because access is hard or impractical, losing any of the biosystem should be unacceptable. Clean tank pics coming in three hours?
then choose your best preventative mode.
Last edited:
Dom
Full Time Reef Keeper
You can get 100 replies and get 100 different suggestions as to the problem and solution.
The reason we grow Chaetomorpha in a refugium (or any other macro algae) is for the purpose of nutrient export. We export nutrients from our tanks in many ways, I find the most common ways to be:
1. Water changes.
2. Protein Skimmer.
3. Refugium.
So increasing nutrients by doing things such as increased feeding wouldn't be my first choice.
The first thing I would do is reduce the frequency of water changes and monitor. After a week, if your Nitrates (NO3) and Phosphates (PO4) don't increase, then reduce the running time of your protein skimmer to 12 hours on and 12 hours off and monitor.
Again, after a week, if your nutrients haven't come up, then remove the Chaetomorpha and monitor. If your nutrients levels still don't come up, THEN you begin doing things such as over feeding.
In order to isolate the problem, you need to make ONE change at a time and give it TIME. Be PATIENT. I know it is ugly to look at, but, fast changes are never good.
And remember something else; we use things like a refugium for nutrient reduction. Chaetomorpha feed on nutrients in the water so if your Chaetomorpha isn't growing, it may be as simple as the Chaetomorpha has done its job. You don't add nutrients for the purpose of reducing them (getting your Chaetomorpha to grow).
A UV is a good idea here.
Thanks for the tag @ScottR.
Don't let ur head spin @RyanHoan. I will try to boil this down a bit.
The reason we like to identify the dino species is to help determine which tools we want to hit them with. That said, 4 out of the common 5 species respond well to the same treatment. The exception is Amphidinium (large cell) which does not go into the water column and therefor UV does not work on them. They are tough to kill off. On the bright side, they are the least toxic of the bunch, and you don't need to spend $500 on a UV. Still, it is a long, ugly slog.
I think it is safe to say you have dinos based on the photos and the 0/0 nutrient now. But here is an easy test to confirm they are dinos. Take a sample of gunk and tank water and shake really hard for 30 seconds. Harder. It should have dissolved into cloudy water. Pour that through a coffee filter or similar into a clear glass container. Sit the container in light for an hour then take a look. If it coagulated back into clumpy gunk you have dinos.
If you want to confirm the species, any microscope that can do 400X or better will work to ID.
You already own the UV so fire it up. It should run TO AND FROM THE DISPLAY for the current purpose. After your done, do whatever you want with it. Run it as slow as the manufacturer will allow (so you don't overheat the bulb). Make sure the lamp is off before the pump is shut down.
NO amino acids or similar. Chuck it in your neighbor's trash can. It will likely expire before you are ready to use it again. No coral food. Your stonies are shut down right now. You are only feeding the dinos. Feeding fish plenty is fine.
Reduce light cycle on fuge down to minimum to keep it alive.
Keep skimmer running, but either run dry or let the skimmate release back into the sump.
Dose PO4 and NO3 up to .1 and >10 or higher. NeoNitro and NeoPhos are fine. I will link cheaper DIY solutions below. You will be shocked by how much is required to reach/keep these levels in the beginning -- especially PO4.
Manual removal: Clamp a bunch of filter floss to the sides of the tank in high flow and high light areas during your light cycle. (Or any place the dinos seem to prefer.) Rinse each evening. Baste any affected corals as often as possible.
Watch your ALK if you are dosing; consumption drops hard.
Once you are comfortable that the UV is properly running, you can accelerate things with a blackout on the tank.
Sorry you are at this point but it is all part of the hobby these days for some reason.
Don't let ur head spin @RyanHoan. I will try to boil this down a bit.
The reason we like to identify the dino species is to help determine which tools we want to hit them with. That said, 4 out of the common 5 species respond well to the same treatment. The exception is Amphidinium (large cell) which does not go into the water column and therefor UV does not work on them. They are tough to kill off. On the bright side, they are the least toxic of the bunch, and you don't need to spend $500 on a UV. Still, it is a long, ugly slog.
I think it is safe to say you have dinos based on the photos and the 0/0 nutrient now. But here is an easy test to confirm they are dinos. Take a sample of gunk and tank water and shake really hard for 30 seconds. Harder. It should have dissolved into cloudy water. Pour that through a coffee filter or similar into a clear glass container. Sit the container in light for an hour then take a look. If it coagulated back into clumpy gunk you have dinos.
If you want to confirm the species, any microscope that can do 400X or better will work to ID.
You already own the UV so fire it up. It should run TO AND FROM THE DISPLAY for the current purpose. After your done, do whatever you want with it. Run it as slow as the manufacturer will allow (so you don't overheat the bulb). Make sure the lamp is off before the pump is shut down.
NO amino acids or similar. Chuck it in your neighbor's trash can. It will likely expire before you are ready to use it again. No coral food. Your stonies are shut down right now. You are only feeding the dinos. Feeding fish plenty is fine.
Reduce light cycle on fuge down to minimum to keep it alive.
Keep skimmer running, but either run dry or let the skimmate release back into the sump.
Dose PO4 and NO3 up to .1 and >10 or higher. NeoNitro and NeoPhos are fine. I will link cheaper DIY solutions below. You will be shocked by how much is required to reach/keep these levels in the beginning -- especially PO4.
Manual removal: Clamp a bunch of filter floss to the sides of the tank in high flow and high light areas during your light cycle. (Or any place the dinos seem to prefer.) Rinse each evening. Baste any affected corals as often as possible.
Watch your ALK if you are dosing; consumption drops hard.
Once you are comfortable that the UV is properly running, you can accelerate things with a blackout on the tank.
Sorry you are at this point but it is all part of the hobby these days for some reason.
As to why this happened with "some" nutrient in the tank... .03?
With Hanna ULR, given perfect execution by the operator, the error margin ie +- .02. If you were to leave a small fingerprint smudge on cuvette # 2 you are even closer to zero. Your rock was acting as a store of PO4 that gradually leached out as your corals, algaes and finally the dinos start consuming. Once the dinos get a small foothold, they can strip a .1 PO4 tank in a day or so.
Nitrate test error ranges are even worse.
Once you have your levels up, you should start to see some cyano. Keep going. Then some green (not brown) slime on the glass. Keep going. You are almost there.
I also forgot to mention diversity. Adding some live rock, mud, live rubble, gunk from another old, established system is good prophylactically IMO. Not sure what it does mid-crisis, but couldn't hurt.
Good luck.
With Hanna ULR, given perfect execution by the operator, the error margin ie +- .02. If you were to leave a small fingerprint smudge on cuvette # 2 you are even closer to zero. Your rock was acting as a store of PO4 that gradually leached out as your corals, algaes and finally the dinos start consuming. Once the dinos get a small foothold, they can strip a .1 PO4 tank in a day or so.
Nitrate test error ranges are even worse.
Once you have your levels up, you should start to see some cyano. Keep going. Then some green (not brown) slime on the glass. Keep going. You are almost there.
I also forgot to mention diversity. Adding some live rock, mud, live rubble, gunk from another old, established system is good prophylactically IMO. Not sure what it does mid-crisis, but couldn't hurt.
Good luck.
ScottR
Surfing....
Thanks for your time Scott. Your tireless effort in the dino battle is second to none. I’ve followed your methods. It’s helped me and I continue to pass on the same info to others. I agree with no coral food. Coral food feeds zooxanthellae which are actually dinoflagellates themselves. I’d assume that coral food to feed the dinos in corals would only do the same to nuisance dinos one is trying to fight?
Ur too kind but thank you. Some good mentors out there to tutor us all -- I am a @taricha disciple myself.
As to coral foods and aminos in particular, I swear that just the scent of any acropower wafting from the refrigerator will inspire another outbreak in my frag system. Thus my advice to dump it in your neighbors trash can.
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True. There certainly seem to be a lot of similarities in the foods that fuel fast coral growth and those that fuel pest dinos.
ScottR
Surfing....
Thanks for your help in this hobby. And tireless efforts to help others.
