Please help me with my Algae Issues

RyanHoan · Apr 2, 2020

Thank you all for the great advice.

I'm going to follow your instruction as best I can.

However, I'm a naturalist by heart (and stubbornness), and I just don't like the idea of dosing phosphates and nitrates. Anyone with me on this? I will absolutely increase my feeding though.

Also,

Can anyone explain to be how fish poop is different from coral food/aminos? why would one be good for this situation, and one feed the dinos?

NS Mike D · Apr 2, 2020

NO3 and PO4 are naturally occurring and the building block of life.

You already add dihydrogen monoxide without reservation.

RyanHoan · Apr 2, 2020

well played

Paulie069 · Apr 2, 2020

RyanHoan said:
well played

Ryan I’m glad you started this thread,, I’ve read it 2x all pages trying to soak up the information being tossed out there by people that seem to know what their talking about. I wish you the best of luck with your situation

RyanHoan · Apr 3, 2020

Question:

my LFS has seachem liquid nitrogen and phosphate for freshwater tanks. Can I use that?

Paulie069 · Apr 3, 2020

RyanHoan said:
Question:

my LFS has seachem liquid nitrogen and phosphate for freshwater tanks. Can I use that?

Why would you even think that of course not

ScottB · Apr 3, 2020

RyanHoan said:
Question:

my LFS has seachem liquid nitrogen and phosphate for freshwater tanks. Can I use that?

I think so, but would feel better having our resident chemist confirm that. @Randy Holmes-Farley .

ScottB · Apr 3, 2020

RyanHoan said:
Thank you all for the great advice.

I'm going to follow your instruction as best I can.

However, I'm a naturalist by heart (and stubbornness), and I just don't like the idea of dosing phosphates and nitrates. Anyone with me on this? I will absolutely increase my feeding though.

Also,

Can anyone explain to be how fish poop is different from coral food/aminos? why would one be good for this situation, and one feed the dinos?

There is a lot we do not know about dinoflagellates. They are strange organisms with a range of properties that is bizarre. They can swim. They photosynthesize. They produce toxins used offensively and defensively. They live in communities. They can go dormant in protective cysts. And they are everywhere in marine environments, just waiting for some kind of imbalance that allows them to take over the bottom of the food chain. I am no scientist, but I find that combination kinda freaky.

Another thing I find interesting is that 10 years ago, they were not a thing in reefing. Maybe they showed up in the early "uglies" phase and no one paid them any attention. Now they are incredibly common. Everybody has their own theories about why: dead rock starts, lack of diversity, Vibrant (algaecide), chemiclean (erythromycin), aminos, LED spectrum, GFO the list goes on. My vote is "All of the Above".

As to fish poop versus amino acids as a food source? I dunno, but I will go with the power of 160 million years of coral reef evolution.

<End Rant>

KimG · Apr 3, 2020

RyanHoan said:
Thank you all for the great advice.

I'm going to follow your instruction as best I can.

However, I'm a naturalist by heart (and stubbornness), and I just don't like the idea of dosing phosphates and nitrates. Anyone with me on this? I will absolutely increase my feeding though.

Also,

Can anyone explain to be how fish poop is different from coral food/aminos? why would one be good for this situation, and one feed the dinos?

Hi Ryan

I also went the increase feeding way, but without much success. Currently under black out until the end of the day. That is already bring Nitrate up, still no phosphate. Probably will end up dosing some phosphate.
Hope it works better for you.

The biggest difference between Aminos and fish poop is probably the availability. Aminos are ready to be consumed as "individual" building blocks. Fish poop on the other ends needs to be broken down. This can be down by ingesting it in the case of animals with mouths or digested externally in the case of bacteria and such organisms, using enzymes.
While I am a scientist working with recirculation systems I know almost nothing about Dinos, so I'm just speculating here, but if they are bad at competing for food (maybe slow at digesting complex molecules) it would be possible that the aminos (as simple, ready to be used building blocks) give them the advantage they need.

Also, I think ScottB is right that there are a lot of factors to Dinos. I believe one is the lack of biodiversity with dry rock. It feels like its less common in thanks started with live rock, but a lot of other factors come in to play.

Best of luck

sixty_reefer · Apr 3, 2020

Thats been a lot of good advice through out this thread I just like to add that dosing live phytoplankton is a plus wend fighting dinoflagellates. They will help outcompete the dinos and also contain po4 which will help raise your phosphate naturally.

ScottB · Apr 3, 2020

sixty_reefer said:
Thats been a lot of good advice through out this thread I just like to add that dosing live phytoplankton is a plus wend fighting dinoflagellates. They will help outcompete the dinos and also contain po4 which will help raise your phosphate naturally.

I like that idea. Do you culture it yourself or buy it bottled? Source/brand?
thanks.

sixty_reefer · Apr 3, 2020

ScottB said:
I like that idea. Do you culture it yourself or buy it bottled? Source/brand?
thanks.

I always got a culture going as Imo phyto in small doses is beneficial for marine life. Brand or species it’s just a personal preference, in the United Kingdom forums we all have been very successful getting rid of dinoflagellates using live phytoplankton.

RyanHoan · Apr 3, 2020

Y'all are the best.

Update:

Started dosing phosphates
Started dosing phyto plankton
Shortened refugium light to 4 hours
I'll test for Phos and Nitrates later today.

Scdell · Apr 3, 2020

ScottB said:
There is a lot we do not know about dinoflagellates. They are strange organisms with a range of properties that is bizarre. They can swim. They photosynthesize. They produce toxins used offensively and defensively. They live in communities. They can go dormant in protective cysts. And they are everywhere in marine environments, just waiting for some kind of imbalance that allows them to take over the bottom of the food chain. I am no scientist, but I find that combination kinda freaky.

Another thing I find interesting is that 10 years ago, they were not a thing in reefing. Maybe they showed up in the early "uglies" phase and no one paid them any attention. Now they are incredibly common. Everybody has their own theories about why: dead rock starts, lack of diversity, Vibrant (algaecide), chemiclean (erythromycin), aminos, LED spectrum, GFO the list goes on. My vote is "All of the Above".

As to fish poop versus amino acids as a food source? I dunno, but I will go with the power of 160 million years of coral reef evolution.

<End Rant>

I find this comment interesting. Algae has been around way before humans ever set foot in this world. I don't buy that it's the last ten years of showing up. Most of the time Cinos, Cyano and Diatoms show up from trying to push things too fast. That's why it's a problem in the last ten years. These things will all go away in time and a little patience.
This whole thread is about someone trying to push things too fast. Nopox and everything else being thrown at the tank. Let the tank evolve, have patience. It will come along on its own.

Scdell · Apr 3, 2020

Fish poop is something that's more available to corals, especially phosphate because it's gone through the fish and has been broken down for the corals. Just look at a reef. There's tons of fish on a reef. Nature works wonders.

RyanHoan · Apr 9, 2020

Day 6 of dosing both nitrates and phosphates (NEO NITRO and SEACHEM Flourish)
Day 1 of UV

Phosphates: 0.4
Nitrates: 0.5-1 range

tank has dramatically fewer Dinos! Sorry for the bad pics, but my tank is hardly feeling cute.

sixty_reefer · Apr 9, 2020

RyanHoan said:
Day 6 of dosing both nitrates and phosphates (NEO NITRO and SEACHEM Flourish)
Day 1 of UV

Phosphates: 0.4
Nitrates: 0.5-1 range

tank has dramatically fewer Dinos! Sorry for the bad pics, but my tank is hardly feeling cute.

thats awesome news buddy, it looks like you winning this battle

Paulie069 · Apr 9, 2020

sixty_reefer said:
thats awesome news buddy, it looks like you winning this battle

That UV light is going to do wonders for your tank you’re going to ask yourself why you didn’t have it long ago

DJF · Apr 9, 2020

Paulie069 said:
That UV light is going to do wonders for your tank you’re going to ask yourself why you didn’t have it long ago

Absolutely true! I will never run a tank w/out one

RyanHoan · Apr 15, 2020

It's been more than a week with UV and dosing and I'm definitely seeing results.

Phos is holding steady at 0.06 and Nitrates are around 4-5.

There are still little patches of dinos in the sand, but none on the rock or coral. Will these eventually fade away if I keep doing what I'm doing?

I'm seeing more coralline, bubble algae, and aptasia now! Eek!