Please Stop Stating This Is An Expensive Hobby.

[Diamond1]

Here's my take on the expense of having a reef tank. Yes this hobby does cost money to get started in (equipment and live stock) and over the long run (replacement costs for pumps, bulbs, food, salt mix etc..). The amount of money spent is in direct proportion to the kind of system you want to have.
A 400 gallon full blown sps reef with all the bells and whistles is not an inexpensive thing to do. Getting a full set of top of the line sun rising, sun setting, thunderstorm emulating LED lights, a Sukolux 9000 quad chamber revolving skimmer, a wave maker that can reproduce anything from a huricane to tides ebbing and flowing and all of it is automated to be run from your cell phone, etc..etc..etc...
All of these things get pricey real quick and that's not even getting into the corals your going to want to stock in the tank, like Bob's Flaming Nebula Hot to Trot World Famous acros.

On the other hand it is entirely possible to set up and run a reef tank without all the bells and whistles. A smaller tank can be successfully run with nothing but live rock, water changes, no frills value lighting and good husbandry. Is it going to be as oooed and aaaahed over as the full blown sps reef? Probably not. But growing corals and watching your tank thrive is why you wanted to do this in the first place right?
Again there are expenses on even a simple system that are going to cost you money over time, like bulb replacement, salt mix, additives etc... How much? That's up to you.

There are plenty of ways to do things in this hobby but knowing what you want before you start is 1/2 the battle. Being informed and making good choices about long term goals like equipment and what you want out of your tank will have a direct impact on what you spend in the hobby. I believe that too many times people get caught up in the hype of the latest and greatest gear for a reef tank and feel compelled to tell someone starting out in the hobby that the only way to have success is to spend lots of money on the latest gadgets. Some of the new gear out there is great, but is it really needed to make my livestock flourish?

This hobby can be expensive or it can be affordable.
Everything is relative.

 

[Marta]

Our initial investment was a used tank and some questionable equipment to go along with it. We found a fantastic LFS that was honest in guiding us in the things we really needed and the things we really didn't. Now, a few years later, we are able to distinguish between the wants and needs, new vs used, etc. I do believe that it could have been very costly thru all three of our tank builds if we hadn't done a lot of research and listened to people who know. "Expensive" is a relative term and shouldn't be pegged on anything to anyone. A millionaire may not find our hobby at all expensive, but someone without those means may find it quite expensive, so...

 

[hart24601]

Perhaps this will be a more telling question. This is for everyone, those who have a cheap tank setup and others. How much total would you estimate you have in ALL your reef related expenses over the years? Not just one inexpensive tank you have, but everything you have spent on the hobby. Just an estimate is fine. To really judge how much this hobby costs we need real numbers from the members on the total amount spent we have spent over the past couple of years, not just setting up one tank. Heck, with just party lying around I could setup a new tank for free, but that isn't what I have paid into this hobby over the past few years. For my 65 and 14 with all the supplies I have used, livestock, upgrades and "learning fees" I bet I have spent 5 grand in the past few years. What is the honest number you guys have spent?

I think giving a total amount spent on the hobby is a better estimate of how much someone is likely to spend rather than what bare min of what it takes to get a system started.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Perhaps this will be a more telling question. This is for everyone, those who have a cheap tank setup and others. How much total would you estimate you have in ALL your reef related expenses over the years? Not just one inexpensive tank you have, but everything you have spent on the hobby. Just an estimate is fine. To really judge how much this hobby costs we need real numbers from the members on the total amount spent we have spent over the past couple of years, not just setting up one tank. Heck, with just party lying around I could setup a new tank for free, but that isn't what I have paid into this hobby over the past few years. For my 65 and 14 with all the supplies I have used, livestock, upgrades and "learning fees" I bet I have spent 5 grand in the past few years. What is the honest number you guys have spent?

I think giving a total amount spent on the hobby is a better estimate of how much someone is likely to spend rather than what bare min of what it takes to get a system started.

I don't think that will actually help. The numbers you will see represent each person's discretionary budget and what they have chosen to spend rather than what is necessary to spend. We've already established that the hobby CAN be done "expensively," so having a numbers comparison on what each one has chosen to spend won't help. For example, fish choices range from $3.99 to $30k.

 

[hart24601]

I think that is the only way to truly determine how expensive this hobby really is. We can argue about how little someone can pay to get a softy tank all we want, but the OP was stop saying this hobby is expensive. A 10g tank often turns into a 100g eventually, softy tank turns into stony. While you might be able to get into the hobby cheap the best way to determine the cost is for everyone to say how much they have spent on every reef related thing in the past say, 3 years. Average that out to determine how much someone is likely to spend.

How about you md? Honest account of reef expenses of past couple of years? We can say it's possible to do it inexpensively but does saying mean doing? I never planned to spend more than 1000 bucks, but we get carried away.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I think that is the only way to truly determine how expensive this hobby really is. We can argue about how little someone can pay to get a softy tank all we want, but the OP was stop saying this hobby is expensive. A 10g tank often turns into a 100g eventually, softy tank turns into stony. While you might be able to get into the hobby cheap the best way to determine the cost is for everyone to say how much they have spent on every reef related thing in the past say, 3 years. Average that out to determine how much someone is likely to spend.

How about you md? Honest account of reef expenses of past couple of years? We can say it's possible to do it inexpensively but does saying mean doing? I never planned to spend more than 1000 bucks, but we get carried away.

Again, it doesn't work. That's like asking everyone how expensive is it to go on vacation and getting everyone to throw out numbers. If you go to Fiji, and I go to Florida, and someone else stays home and does stuff around the area they live in, the average doesn't give us an idea of how expensive it is to go on vacation. The realities of each is so far removed from the other that it negates any useful info. If you start averaging what a person who keeps a 14g biocube spends with the guy who has a 220g reef, then you end up with a number in the middle, but it doesn't accurately reflect either one. At this point, my reef pretty much pays for itself. The expenses put out on maintenance (salt, reactor media, food, etc.) can easily be paid for by selling frags out of the tank. Even new additions can be covered this way (if I'm low on funds and need to be patient...), so by that logic I could tell someone that reefing doesn't cost money which would be totally inaccurate. Spending of discretionary budgets and how much someone recoups by propagation are some of the variables that make your proposal skewed when it comes to providing useful data.

 

[hart24601]

I truly think it's the only way it can work. This thread already determined that expensive is subjective. That much seems clear.

So we shouldn't tell people "this is an expensive hobby". That is totally correct!

But what we can tell them is the average amount reef2reef members spend on their tank in a year. Yes it varies from person to person. Some are 20k, some are 1k, but the median value (we wont use the average) is the amount the most people spend. There is not a more accurate way I can think of.

So if someone asks we don't have to use a subjective amount! You could answer "Well the median amount a reef2reefer spends is _____" Then they can determine is that is expensive or not based on their own financial situation.

You can always list income too, and someone can take the median of that into account.

 

[dbl]

I once saw a sign that said this:

“My hope is, if something happens to me, my wife doesn’t sell the aquarium stuff for what I told her I paid for it.â€

Just thought I would bring a little levity to a topic for which a consensus will never be reached.

Yes it can be done inexpensively, and yes it can be expensive, both of which is all relative to the aquarist in question.

 

[hart24601]

I am going to try and explain it a little better. The OP was to stop saying this hobby is expensive. Not starting a tank can be done cheap, but the expense of continuing in this hobby. That doesn't mean people that had a tank for a year and gave up, that means us, our community of ongoing reefers. The only way to really answer that would be to set up some polls:

Ask how much reef2reef members spend. Averaged out into a yearly basis. The best would be an estimate of every reef expense they ever had divided by the years in the hobby, but 3 or 5 years would also work. Hopefully enough people would reply to get a decent number of responses. Any income made could be listed in the comments.

Taking the median of those values would give the most realistic number that reef2reef members spend in this hobby. Not the average as someone spending 100,000 or 50 bucks can throw that off, but the median gives a good indication of the "middle". You can then take the median of the incomes (I would guess assume 0 if they didn't comment)

So when someone asks "Is this hobby expensive?" You don't have to use that subjective term, you can say an actual $ amount that the "middle" forum member has averaged over the years. The other person can then decide if that is expensive or not! Take all the subjectivity out of it.

 

[tyler1503]

Like it was said before, this thread is like beating a dead horse.
The same comments posted over and over.
It's expensive.
It's doesn't have to be.
Yes it does.
No it doesn't.
Yes it does.
No it doesn't.
Yes it does.
No it doesn't.
Yes it does.
No it doesn't.
Yes it does.
No it doesn't.

Despite the fact that the maths has been done and answer has been posted already, no one here will back down on either side.
The cost of a tank is fact. It's not an opinion. Like gravity, it's just there. While the value of money is purely subjective, the actual numbers are not. With that said, I vote to have the thread closed.

 

[hart24601]

I'm not on either side. I was just trying to figure out a way to take the subjectivity out. I thought it was a good idea, now I'm sad. lol

 

[ahmed.boomer]

The hobby has a high cost because most of us end up wanting to get high end piece. I started with a small 10 gallon with a filter, heater, 70w HQI, and 5lb of live rock. No RO/DI, SPS/LPS or expensive lighting. Think my total start up was $120 with a years supply of instant ocean. Two months later I bought a 90 gallon tank, LED lighting, skimmer, 70lb dry rock, 100lb sand, RO/DI unit wp-40, return pump, GFO/Carbon reactor.... Makes out to be $1200 at LEAST. That is without the cost of corals, fish, inverts, plants, salt, monthly electricity, GFO, Carbon, supplements, test kits, ect. Planning to add an APEX soon which is another big expense.

However we tend to over look the time factor. This hobby is rather time consuming. I value my time. I know everyone around me would probably enjoy it if I cut back on it, but I personally enjoy every moment(aside from water changes).

When I did photography I spent $825 upfront on a used D7100 with a single lens and lightroom. I spent $600 over the course of the next year on lenses. It was a really good deal to me at the time but I eventually sold my photography equipment for reef equipment.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I'm not on either side. I was just trying to figure out a way to take the subjectivity out. I thought it was a good idea, now I'm sad. lol

LOL Don't be sad. We're all just very opinionated. In your equation, how would you factor in propagation recoup? Shouldn't that number be taken into consideration?

 

[hart24601]

LOL Don't be sad. We're all just very opinionated. In your equation, how would you factor in propagation recoup? Shouldn't that number be taken into consideration?

Yep! I talk about that in the post. If you did a poll you could ask that income from the reef is listed in the comments. If no income from reefing then don't comment = 0 values. I would guess the median value of reefing income would be zero though, but I don't know. The problem with the poll is I think most people don't want to even estimate how much they have spent!

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Yep! I talk about that in the post. If you did a poll you could ask that income from the reef is listed in the comments. If no income from reefing then don't comment = 0 values. I would guess the median value of reefing income would be zero though, but I don't know. The problem with the poll is I think most people don't want to even estimate how much they have spent!

Ahh. I saw "income" and thought you meant household income. :tongue: I might need a privacy disclosure and a signature declaring that this info will be sealed and deniable so that my wife never finds out! LOL JK Of course, I don't hide this info from her...that would be wrong...

 

[hart24601]

Ahh. I saw "income" and thought you meant household income. :tongue: I might need a privacy disclosure and a signature declaring that this info will be sealed and deniable so that my wife never finds out! LOL JK Of course, I don't hide this info from her...that would be wrong...

Lol, I got a new clam and was hoping my GF wouldn't notice. Of course she did....

But for xmas she is getting me a miracles 120 rimless 3/4" starfire tank, so I am one lucky dude.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Lol, I got a new clam and was hoping my GF wouldn't notice. Of course she did....

But for xmas she is getting me a miracles 120 rimless 3/4" starfire tank, so I am one lucky dude.

Saweet! She's a keeper!! ...and the GF too! LOL

 

[PCygni]

Wow, people really can't grasp the idea that things can be done cheap. I set up 3 tanks for about $300 (just hardware, dry base rock and water, no livestock). How can that be considered expensive?
You may have spent $10,000 on your tank.
You may have $3000 worth of LEDs on your tank.
You may have the newest $500 per polyp zoa.
You may feel the need to buy something every single time your at the LFS.
You may have chosen to make it expensive for yourself.
But does that mean it has to be expensive? No.
Just because you did it a certain way, it doesn't mean other people haven't had success doing the exact opposite. Now my tank isn't the most beautiful one out there and it certainly isn't going to win any tank of the month type competitions, but it's pleasant enough for me to look at atleast. And didn't cost me much at all.
To say it is expensive without acknowledging the fact that you chose to make it expensive while there were PLENTY of cheaper options out there, is just ignorance in my opinion. There is always a cheaper option. If you chose the expensive option, that's your fault.
Don't complain about this being "an expensive hobby" when there are cheaper options out there.
If I've offended someone by saying this, I'm sorry. It's not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings.
But at the end of the day, it's all about what your willing to spend.

How much time and money did u spend, and how much experience did u have to garner before u could do things on the cheap?

 

[Diesel]

Numbers and more numbers turn things into figures, all what I care about is that the Dow gain 200+ points, with some stocks that I moved around early this week I gain 5k extra in coral money.
No vote to close it down from my side, more like a new forum in the build section "Tanks on a Budget" thank me later.
Or a contest from a sponsor that will give 10 members $500 and they have to build and maintain a reef tank from not smaller than 10 gallon for a full year.
Who got most money left over get the Budget award.

 

[ingtar_shinowa]

Numbers and more numbers turn things into figures, all what I care about is that the Dow gain 200+ points, with some stocks that I moved around early this week I gain 5k extra in coral money.
No vote to close it down from my side, more like a new forum in the build section "Tanks on a Budget" thank me later.
Or a contest from a sponsor that will give 10 members $500 and they have to build and maintain a reef tank from not smaller than 10 gallon for a full year.
Who got most money left over get the Budget award.

That a great idea on the forum. For the contest, a 5k contest is pretty crazy lol. I dont think i would be interested in a constest that doesn't let me add what I want. I have a 40b and 20l with a diablo skimmer and a zetlight sitting around waiting to be set up but I dont have the room. I paid $30 for both tanks, 150 for the skimmer and won the light in a contest. That would leave me $320 for livestock.... tight.