Please Stop Stating This Is An Expensive Hobby.

[van7271]

It is just like any other hobby. Extra! You do it after the necessities are take care of. I also agree that we make the hobby as expensive as we want it to be. After I stopped buying the newest latest thing and committed to basic simple maintenance, I found that my tank runs it self with minimal cost as long as I put in the work and most importantly stay on schedule.

 

[McMullen]

^ A thought out and planned system absolutely does not have to have the most expensive equipment. A small softy tank or FOWLR requires very little maintenance. A SPS tank no matter the size will have more cost and require more to maintain. The larger the tank, the more monthly expense. Many people that get into the hobby start small and begin upgrading as their "taste," in coral and livestock change over time. This creates for some perpetual spending.

 

[Ryan Rioux]

I always tell people that for a standard non-custom made 36" long tank, unless you have an extra 3k laying around plus at least another 150-200 each month, you can't afford this hobby. It's not just about automation. Tank, stand, lights, flow, sump, pumps, heaters, test kits, salt, rock, filtration (skimmer, fuge, whatever you choose to use), RODI, mixing tubs (brute containers on the cheap). That's all before you put a fish or coral in the tank. For a 4' tank I say about 5k to get started. Not crazy expensive but definitely not cheap by any stretch.

Regards,
Taylor

Your prices are pretty close to correct

I always tell people that for a standard non-custom made 36" long tank, unless you have an extra 3k laying around plus at least another 150-200 each month, you can't afford this hobby. It's not just about automation. Tank, stand, lights, flow, sump, pumps, heaters, test kits, salt, rock, filtration (skimmer, fuge, whatever you choose to use), RODI, mixing tubs (brute containers on the cheap). That's all before you put a fish or coral in the tank. For a 4' tank I say about 5k to get started. Not crazy expensive but definitely not cheap by

I always tell people that for a standard non-custom made 36" long tank, unless you have an extra 3k laying around plus at least another 150-200 each month, you can't afford this hobby. It's not just about automation. Tank, stand, lights, flow, sump, pumps, heaters, test kits, salt, rock, filtration (skimmer, fuge, whatever you choose to use), RODI, mixing tubs (brute containers on the cheap). That's all before you put a fish or coral in the tank. For a 4' tank I say about 5k to get started. Not crazy expensive but definitely not cheap by any stretch.

Regards,
Taylor

Your correct, I setup a 36 inch rimless tank in January and so far on everythinggg I'm about $4,500 into it. If I would've known , I may have not done it!

 

[cb684]

My impression is that most of the cheap successful systems are not from beginners. As really small tank, they are challenging and are not forgiving. Most of the beginners that start with subpar equipments end up either being unsuccessful and leaving the hobby or spending twice.

 

[Chris Adams]

As long as the kids don't care about college I am good

 

[seattlefishboy]

This hobby is expensive as you make it. There are numerous amounts of ways to get lower costs on equipment and livestock. Wanting to have the newest of the equipment or the most expensive corals will make the cost soar. There are ways to start in this hobby without the wallet breaking amount everyone tells new people it is to be. Buying used equipment to start off isn't stressed as much as buying newly released equipment from MACNA or other big trade shows. Giving small frags to beginner hobbyist to start off during frag swags isn't being done as much as it used to and it doesn't have to be your "LE super-blue-baby-boy-Eskimo Acropora". Stressing water changes can lessen the load by a lot ie no skimmer or sump needed. Paying $3.75 for saltwater at the local fish store compared to mixing it themselves. The costs can be crunched but no one is telling that side. It is just about who has the most high-tech reef.

Wow! $3.75? It's a buck at my store and it's good rodi water and good salt I guess I'm lucky

 

[Bill Bolton]

^ A thought out and planned system absolutely does not have to have the most expensive equipment. A small softy tank or FOWLR requires very little maintenance. A SPS tank no matter the size will have more cost and require more to maintain. The larger the tank, the more monthly expense. Many people that get into the hobby start small and begin upgrading as their "taste," in coral and livestock change over time. This creates for some perpetual spending.

Actually, I found the cost to size of the tank decreases with size. Yes, an SPS tank will cost more in maintenance, but an LPS or mixed tank can be fairly self sufficient as size increases.
A bio cube is probably the toughest, and most labor intensive to keep in line since the water volume is small, stability and forgiveness don't truly exist.
Over 30 years, I have found that once system volume gets past 175 to 200 gallons, a well set up system really only needs top off water, light feeding and a water change about every 2 months.
The cleaners and herbivores keep the algae down, and cleaners keep detritus at a minimum.
My last 120 with a 75 gallon sump/fuge went 3 months with only top off water, and still had 0 ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and calcium measured 300. This was while I was shipped off to France for training for work and my wife added water for me.

 

[Congaken]

Actually, I found the cost to size of the tank decreases with size. Yes, an SPS tank will cost more in maintenance, but an LPS or mixed tank can be fairly self sufficient as size increases.
A bio cube is probably the toughest, and most labor intensive to keep in line since the water volume is small, stability and forgiveness don't truly exist.
Over 30 years, I have found that once system volume gets past 175 to 200 gallons, a well set up system really only needs top off water, light feeding and a water change about every 2 months.
The cleaners and herbivores keep the algae down, and cleaners keep detritus at a minimum.
My last 120 with a 75 gallon sump/fuge went 3 months with only top off water, and still had 0 ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and calcium measured 300. This was while I was shipped off to France for training for work and my wife added water for me.

It is just like any other hobby. Extra! You do it after the necessities are take care of. I also agree that we make the hobby as expensive as we want it to be. After I stopped buying the newest latest thing and committed to basic simple maintenance, I found that my tank runs it self with minimal cost as long as I put in the work and most importantly stay on schedule.

You see, this is not a hobby...it is a life...total dedication or bust...

 

[that Reef Guy]

Bare Bones 10 gallon systems with little equipment can be difficult to maintain for people just starting out in the hobby. It requires attention to detail and a consistent plan for nutrient export. Yes, it would take quite a while to go through a bucket of salt, and one could easily maintain minerals and elements without dosing, simply water changes. Life however gets in the way and long term success with small systems "usually," is from people that already have the "bug," and have experience.

Arguing extremes is silly. Think about this hobby from the view point of someone who walks into a pet store for the first time and sees the magical color and movement of marine fish and reef. Most don't want a small tank, they want a 40-75-90 gallon systems. They aren't going to choose the tank that will house "A" fish, they want lots of color fish.

I have a 10 Gallon and it is the Easiest Tank to Care For of my 6 Tanks by Far.

I do massive water changes (Only 5 Gallons on the 10 Gallon Tank).

It is the Quickest and Easiest Tank I have.

Most may want a 90 Gallon but many cannot afford it.

I know plenty of people with 10 Gallon or 14 Gallon Bio-Cubes because they want to save money and have less work.

 

[that Reef Guy]

Wow! $3.75? It's a buck at my store and it's good rodi water and good salt I guess I'm lucky

Yeah 3.75 is Insane!

Also 1.00 at my LFS.

Where is it 3.75?

 

[that Reef Guy]

Actually, I found the cost to size of the tank decreases with size. Yes, an SPS tank will cost more in maintenance, but an LPS or mixed tank can be fairly self sufficient as size increases.
A bio cube is probably the toughest, and most labor intensive to keep in line since the water volume is small, stability and forgiveness don't truly exist.
Over 30 years, I have found that once system volume gets past 175 to 200 gallons, a well set up system really only needs top off water, light feeding and a water change about every 2 months.
The cleaners and herbivores keep the algae down, and cleaners keep detritus at a minimum.
My last 120 with a 75 gallon sump/fuge went 3 months with only top off water, and still had 0 ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and calcium measured 300. This was while I was shipped off to France for training for work and my wife added water for me.

I disagree.

A Bio-Cube is Nothing.

Water Changes are so quick and easy.

My Biggest Tanks Require the Most Work because there is more area to clean and more saltwater and time is invested in water changes.

My Biggest Tank is 55 Gallons and takes forever to clean and maintain.

My 10 and 20 Gallon Tanks are super easy.

200 Gallons! I would never set up a tank like that as it would be a nightmare.

So much water would have to be made and water changes would take forever!

 

[Jamesholt]

I have a 125 FOWLER in the living room, and a Deep Blue frag and 8x8x8 Pico cube in my office..
The 125 is a lot of work.. Couple of damsels, flame angel, lawnmower blenny, watchman goby, big white hermit and crap ton of snails...
The Pico is a lot of fun, 16oz water change every few days and its golden.. No fish, just packed with corals.. Planning on a fire shrimp,, maybe.....
If you keep a FOWLER or Softie tank it isn't too expensive..
I have more in the Pico (lighting wise) than I do in the 125 or the frag..
All because I wanted a Kessil to put over it.. Have a par38 that would have worked just fine, but I really wanted that Kessil...
What helps in this hobby is::
Build your own stand..
Build your own sump..
Being smart about used equipment purchases..
The $5-$10 frag selection is your friend..
Avoiding the "Hype"... Just because a new light,skimmer,powerhead,pump comes out, doesn't mean you have to have it..
Being careful with QT procedures/Treatments.. (don't keep buying the same fish over and over, then complain about how it keeps dying from ICH)
Take your time, nothing moves fast in this hobby...
And most importantly research your livestock, plan ahead and stick to it...
Its only expensive if you let it be...

 

[Colin Chaplin]

All hobbies can be expensive, buying the best equipment you can afford and size you can afford will pay off in the long run, you also have to budget for the maintenance and cost of running the equipment and the up keep of lights, water, filters, pumps, tests and health of the marine environment etc, bear in mind, it's a reasonability to looking after a marine environment and their survival of that environment you owe them to give the best you can afford, for your enjoyment and peace of mind and less stress for them and you. Yes you can do it yourself on a budget by making you own equipment, as long as you know what you are doing, you don't want it to fail big time and there is plenty of people on this site here, giving some very good advice with years of experience to help. Plan ahead. Compatibility of all your livestock and size, do your research of what you want, and don't buy something on a whim, check the supplier or your local store/s you owe it for yourself to get the best for yourself and your marine environment.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

Totally agree, I spent a lot of money because I took people's advice on different methodologies. After failing over and over I decided to go with the 'big bad corporation' and setup the red sea system.
If I would have done that from the start I would have saved myself a few grand at least, and lots of headaches.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Bumping this discussion back up because it's a fun topic to discuss. Happy New Year!! May 2018 be your most productive year and the year in which your tank starts pulling its own financial weight...err...yeah... :-D

 

[Paleozoic_reefer]

Agree! This is an expensive hobby! But I think of it as a hobby with a one-time, big up-front investment. Once you get past the cost of the basics (tank, skimmer,lights,LR, sand,RO system) and you do your research (!!!) then the rest is pretty manageable. I find those who don’t invest the time to do online research or ask the experts (and not the ones behind the cash register!) run the risk of blowing tons of $$$ buying every snake oil their LFS sells them when they have a problem or they spend HUGE sums of cash on that awesome SPS or fish that won’t last a week in their tank!! I don’t know how many times I’ve gone to a LFS and seen some newbie walk in wanting a tank setup (you’ll need this Red Reefer for these corals!) or a “Dory” or “Nemo”for their kids and is sold everything under the sun (this is the Kessil you’ll need for this fish!) to them with little to no idea what they are getting into! I also think these unfortunate newbies turn into the repeat-short-term customers who got suckered into a hobby that requires more dedication and time than they have and then they give up 10 months after blowing a ton of money. So I think with; an initial investment of ~$1500-2k for top-of-line equipment (in this hobby you get what you pay for!!), a desire to really understand what you’re doing by seeking out true experts, a willingness to do DIY projects, and PATIENCE ( $5 frags turn into $200 pieces that’ll make them drool!) will make this an affordable and worthwhile hobby!!

 

[Susan Edwards]

It does cost money to start and a budget each month. And if the tank needs something, you have to find the $$ to get it. Much like any pet who might needs a vet visit or meds etc. I agree some of the expense can be the "I wants" but to start, there is a basic set up cost and a basic maintenance cost to be considered. I've gone the least $$ I could by purchasing both tanks from craigslist. I've had my first saltwater tank set up for 1 year now. Got the tank for 800. Red Sea 66 gal all in one. So saved equipment costs there. Second tank, 125 gal, bought also craigslist this last Nov. was 450 and includes skimmer--dumped stand and sump and bought new stand (400 petco, sump 360 bashsea)

I keep track of what I spend. Here is my break down for the first year and a month in 2016. I have no real bells & whistles or high end equipment. Jebao wavemakers or cheap power heads, some power hob filters and lights for the display refugium (cheap black box). I started Nov 2016.

Equip: (includes setting up display refugium & QT tanks with filters and powerheads, RODI, doser, pod/phyto set ups, and anything that did not come with the RS tank)
2016-1036
2017-2726
Setup: (tanks, sump, stand, rocks, sand-not including equipment just basic set ups to get tank ready for water)
2016 Red SEa-1191
2017 Red Se-405
2017 125 gal-1288
Maintenance (test kits, additives, food-stuff to maintain tank)
2016-329
2017-2827
Livestock (fish, corals, inverts, macro algae, pods, etc)
2016-234
2017-1570
Education (books etc. Thank god for the internet)
2016-19
2017-15
Misc. (taxes and shipping-thank god for amazon prime)
2017-83

Equipment and maintenance are close. Over time, maintenance will be biggest cost.
2016 : 2810 (Just over one month of spending)
2017 : 8914

Over 11k to set up one display, one refugium and 2 qt tanks and to purchase a new tank, stand and sump. Could have put a downpayment on a car or bought that nice embroidery sewing machine! But not nearly so fun, although I do have to prob. buy a car end of this year....

I anticipate--have budgeted between 5-6k for Jan-July of 2018 just for the new tank set up which includes the first fish and corals and a spare pump and 150-300 mo for the current tank. After July, prob. 400 a month for both, including some months of purchasing corals and fish. Yeah, those months will be higher....

So what we should tell people is there is a basic cost depending on how they start (new or used), what size they go with (some of the costs still needed like test kits) and what they want to get out of it (fish, corals, etc). I was told it was an expensive hobby and that person was right.

 

[humbletumble]

I'm going to bump this thread.

After reading a lot of the posts here, it really worries me that so many members (at least the ones I've noticed in this thread, as well as a lot of reefers I've met in person) are pushing for newcomers to spend their life savings on equipment that is totally overpriced and unnecessary, as well as telling others that if they don't spend that money, they aren't doing it right. Honestly, it makes me wonder if I should be part of any community if this is what's believed and pushed. I know it's not everyone, but it's a bit disheartening to see it so prevalent.

My two cents

 

[Goaway]

I'm going to bump this thread.

After reading a lot of the posts here, it really worries me that so many members (at least the ones I've noticed in this thread, as well as a lot of reefers I've met in person) are pushing for newcomers to spend their life savings on equipment that is totally overpriced and unnecessary, as well as telling others that if they don't spend that money, they aren't doing it right. Honestly, it makes me wonder if I should be part of any community if this is what's believed and pushed. I know it's not everyone, but it's a bit disheartening to see it so prevalent.

My two cents

They're in the wrong place. The people I speak to run on as little as they can. Go big if you want, pinch pennies is best.

There's a few times budget builds are spoken about. I get the big dogs come in flashing fancy names on equipment. A lot of the more experienced reefers will shun at that. Only thing is, I don't think any one gives them glance.

But right now, the cheapest way into the hobby is buying used. I got lucky with my system. It was expensive. I was fortunate to win some nice lights.

This community can be great and very helpful. Don't let the bad apples ruin the barrel.

 

[CoralB]

+1 It is expensive. Although the word "expensive" is a pretty subjective word. Engineer, doctor, waitress, paper boy - the word "expensive" means different things to different people. Even if you just contrast and compare the costs of fresh water to salt water, I think you can reasonably say salt is more expensive. It would be interesting to me, to know the average income of reefers.....

I don't think it's discouraging to new hobbyists to say it's expensive. It's honest. It's right. It prompts appropriate and reasonable responses, whereas not speaking to cost may lead to ultimate failure and/or discouragement.

Agreed but don’t assume that the doctor or the engineer have more discretionary finances to spend . They could be high in debt , credit cards maxed , paying alimony, child support , or overspent on vacations etc . The paper boy and the Waitress might be debt free and rolling in it lol!!! . I get your point but your analogy was based on assumption .