Plumbing, Am I Doing It Right?

[Hugh Mann]

Just want to make sure I am not screwing something up before I glue it all together.


Dual Durso style standpipes. Ball valves (because gate valves are 5x the price). The long piece is only at an angle because I forgot to get some strapping to hold it level.

Haven’t rigged the return yet, as I ran out of materials. The pump only came with slip fittings (Jebao dcp-15000) , so I was thinking put a union right at the pump for easy removal. Should probably throw a second one somewhere in the line I suspect too, if I can find one, I bought the last two in town it seems.

Irrelevant to the post, but to stave off the inevitable questions.

No center supports because then the sump can’t be easily removed if necessary. The 2x8 top frame is strong enough to have negligible deflection.

The sump isn’t finished which is why it looks kinda funky the way the drains are. Waiting on more glass to create a chamber that will fill and spill over to the filter socks and/or sponges.

 

[Sean Clark]

What size gate valves do you need? That is what you are doing wrong.

 

[Sean Clark]

BC Canada?

 

[Hugh Mann]

BC Canada?

Yes.

Cheapest I’ve found in store for 1.5” is about $80. Online $50+shipping.

 

[Sean Clark]

Let me know if these will help. They may be to long for you and your setup.

 

[Hugh Mann]

Let me know if these will help. They may be to long for you and your setup.

On the vertical, it would be super tight, I have pretty much exactly 14.5” between the bulkhead and top of the sump, and if I am measuring them correctly, a 1.5” 90 elbow is 3.5” top to bottom. Horizontal won’t have enough room on the left unless I move the drains to the near side of the sump.

 

[Sean Clark]

On the vertical, it would be super tight, I have pretty much exactly 14.5” between the bulkhead and top of the sump, and if I am measuring them correctly, a 1.5” 90 elbow is 3.5” top to bottom. Horizontal won’t have enough room on the left unless I move the drains to the near side of the sump.

That is what I was thinking looking at you pics. I don't have any standard 1½" gates to send you.

 

[theMeat]

Is this some sorta new quiet plumbing design I’m not aware of?
You could run a valve on one pipe to establish that as your full siphon. And on the second pipe no valve, i.e. Herbie style.
On the return run a short piece of tubing, 6” or so off the pump, then transition to rigid pipe. You won’t need a Union and the tubing will help isolate vibration

 

[Freenow54]

That is what I was thinking looking at you pics. I don't have any standard 1½" gates to send you.

Why are you against ball valves?

 

[Sean Clark]

Why are you against ball valves?

Ball valves intended purpose is to open or close a circuit, not to throttle a circuit. Gate valves and diaphragm valves are designed to throttle a circuit. Due to there design they are much easier to make fine adjustments to the flow. I do not have anything against ball valves. This is just an example of the right tool for the right job. Ball valves do work, just not ideal for flow regulation.

 

[Freenow54]

Ball valves intended purpose is to open or close a circuit, not to throttle a circuit. Gate valves and diaphragm valves are designed to throttle a circuit. Due to there design they are much easier to make fine adjustments to the flow. I do not have anything against ball valves. This is just an example of the right tool for the right job. Ball valves do work, just not ideal for flow regulation.

Well no argument about ball valves use at all. It is just that I have worked in the piping industry all my career ( now retired ) maybe we are talking about the same thing but to be clear gate valve's are notorious for freezing. Globe valves are used for flow control which I think is what your posted picture is

 

[Sean Clark]

Well no argument about ball valves use at all. It is just that I have worked in the piping industry all my career ( now retired ) maybe we are talking about the same thing but to be clear gate valve's are notorious for freezing. Globe valves are used for flow control which I think is what your posted picture is

True brass gates do seize up, clearly you have experience in this area. PVC gates do not suffer from the same issues. "Cheap" PVC ball valves do seize up over time in this environment.
Those are globe valves. I just didn't want to muddy the conversation by introducing new terms, possibly confusing people and then explaining the differences. A lot of people in this hobby use gate valves not globe valves. I always use the wye pattern globe valves. Best tool for the job in my opinion.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Is this some sorta new quiet plumbing design I’m not aware of?
You could run a valve on one pipe to establish that as your full siphon. And on the second pipe no valve, i.e. Herbie style.
On the return run a short piece of tubing, 6” or so off the pump, then transition to rigid pipe. You won’t need a Union and the tubing will help isolate vibration

I’m wondering the same. Why would you want to put valves on durso drain pipes? That’s a recipe for a flood. You could as suggested above put a gate valve on one side only and go Herbie style, but it will be tricky to balance with two different overflows. The safest design with one drain in each overflow is to leave them both durso and valve free.

 

[theMeat]

Tricky but doable. As long as your full siphon is lower. Could also drill another hole inside overflow box

I’m wondering the same. Why would you want to put valves on durso drain pipes? That’s a recipe for a flood. You could as suggested above put a gate valve on one side only and go Herbie style, but it will be tricky to balance with two different overflows. The safest design with one drain in each overflow is to leave them both durso and valve free.

 

[Hugh Mann]

I’m wondering the same. Why would you want to put valves on durso drain pipes? That’s a recipe for a flood. You could as suggested above put a gate valve on one side only and go Herbie style, but it will be tricky to balance with two different overflows. The safest design with one drain in each overflow is to leave them both durso and valve free.

Maybe I am just a moron who knows nothing (which the more progress I attempt to make, the more I am realizing this is likely the case). I would’ve sworn I read something about needing valves to moderate flow rates or some such thing.

Fortunately still at the stage nothing is glued together, so easy enough to eliminate them entirely.

 

[Projects with Sam]

Its my understanding that you don't need any valves for Durso overflows. Only need one gate valve if you're doing Herbie or bean animal style.

durso/herbie/bean-animal overflow diagrams

 

[WVNed]

How do you plan to get a skimmer or other things into and out of the sump with no overhead clearance?

 

[Hugh Mann]

There’s actually a decent bit of overhead clearance. I’ve already checked and I can easily add and remove the equipment.

How do you plan to get a skimmer or other things into and out of the sump with no overhead clearance?

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Maybe I am just a moron who knows nothing (which the more progress I attempt to make, the more I am realizing this is likely the case). I would’ve sworn I read something about needing valves to moderate flow rates or some such thing.

Fortunately still at the stage nothing is glued together, so easy enough to eliminate them entirely.

No you’re not a moron. You’re new and learning just like we all did. The reason you don’t want a valve on all drains is because pipes with valves are set precisely to only allow a certain amount of water through. You will periodically need to adjust them as the water line is above or below the top of the pipe.

If the water is above and you don’t have an emergency drain your tank overflows all over the floor. Not good!

With drain systems like Herbie (two drains) or Bean Animal (3 drains), you have one or more totally open pipes (no valve) for emergency. Your main drain has a valve which you dial precisely and it makes your drains essentially silent.

Since your tank only has two drains, you can do a Herbie (valve on one drain only).

If you do a couple quick searches for Durso (what you have), Herbie & Bean Animal, you’ll see what I mean.

So to sum it up for your tank, no valves would be safest. Herbie would be slightly less safe but likely quieter. If you decide to go with Herbie, buy a gate valve, not a ball valve. A ball valve will drive you crazy!

 

[Hugh Mann]

Its my understanding that you don't need any valves for Durso overflows. Only need one gate valve if you're doing Herbie or bean animal style.

durso/herbie/bean-animal overflow diagrams
No you’re not a moron. You’re new and learning just like we all did. The reason you don’t want a valve on all drains is because pipes with valves are set precisely to only allow a certain amount of water through. You will periodically need to adjust them as the water line is above or below the top of the pipe.

If the water is above and you don’t have an emergency drain your tank overflows all over the floor. Not good!

With drain systems like Herbie (two drains) or Bean Animal (3 drains), you have one or more totally open pipes (no valve) for emergency. Your main drain has a valve which you dial precisely and it makes your drains essentially silent.

Since your tank only has two drains, you can do a Herbie (valve on one drain only).

If you do a couple quick searches for Durso (what you have), Herbie & Bean Animal, you’ll see what I mean.

So to sum it up for your tank, no valves would be safest. Herbie would be slightly less safe but likely quieter. If you decide to go with Herbie, buy a gate valve, not a ball valve. A ball valve will drive you crazy!

Well alright then. That makes life somewhat less complicated. Appreciate it. Thank you.