Plumbing experts I need your help. From: plumbing noob

[Fatmike92]

Now I have never done anything like this before. so please help me!

I just did what made sense to me. and I want to keep the plumbing very simple. drain plumbing and return plumbing.

here is what I have so far. Now nothing is cemented together and I added a shutoff valve to the drain plumbing

Tell me what to do!

 

[reefjunky24]

Def drill the hole in the top and I'd add the shut off valve in just in case you need it

The only thing I might add to the return is a flow gage that way you can always see if flow is dropping off due to pump getting dirty

 

[Fatmike92]

Def drill the hole in the top and I'd add the shut off valve in just in case you need it

The only thing I might add to the return is a flow gage that way you can always see if flow is dropping off due to pump getting dirty

Oh thats a good idea I like that Ill have to grab one of those. thanks!

anyone else got any good ideas?

 

[reefjunky24]

Are you putting on any extra pumps? cause you could also plump in a split on the return and have it return to both sides of the tank as well


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[Fatmike92]

I thought about that but I will be putting an MP40 on the side of the tank where the drain is so Ill be getting plenty of flow from that side so that is why I stuck with just the one return

 

[reefjunky24]

I did the same on my 60 shallow return on each side of the drain cause I made it a peninsula tank


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[reefjunky24]

I'd have more ideas for you but more for the inside plumbing to the sump, I don't really see much else to do on the back but I could be missing something




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[Fatmike92]

I'd have more ideas for you but more for the inside plumbing to the sump, I don't really see much else to do on the back but I could be missing something




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Ok thanks! honestly on the inside for the return I plan on have a hose from the pump up to a PVC attachment and then up to the tank!

the drain I just wanted to throw a 90 degree elbow on the inside and then another piece of PVC that goes into the sump.

 

[Fatmike92]

Im hoping to get this done tonight. stupid work getting in the way yet again

 

[reefjunky24]

Ya for the return just put flexible tubing from pumps to PVC, now u can also add a check valve in the return a well god forbid a power outage or something it will stop any water coming back to the sump on a reverse siphon from the tank, also on the drain to the pump you can also put a "y" on it incase u run the drain directly to a media reactor or something along those lines, also I don't glue the PVC from te 90 into the sump as long as the 90 is over the sump opening if there is a small leak it will just run down the pipe and if u ever need to work on the sump u can easly remove that without having to redue plumbing, anywhere u can put unions in do it saves time in the future if u change the way the pipes run, I also like to use modules piping if I can. But if u got any questions let me know try n help if I can

 

[Fatmike92]

Ya for the return just put flexible tubing from pumps to PVC, now u can also add a check valve in the return a well god forbid a power outage or something it will stop any water coming back to the sump on a reverse siphon from the tank, also on the drain to the pump you can also put a "y" on it incase u run the drain directly to a media reactor or something along those lines, also I don't glue the PVC from te 90 into the sump as long as the 90 is over the sump opening if there is a small leak it will just run down the pipe and if u ever need to work on the sump u can easly remove that without having to redue plumbing, anywhere u can put unions in do it saves time in the future if u change the way the pipes run, I also like to use modules piping if I can. But if u got any questions let me know try n help if I can

Ok awesome thank you!

I need a better saw. It would make this so much easier. Im using a small hack saw lol!

 

[Usctom]

You could drill a small hole on the return that is barely under water. This will stop the water from siphoning back into the sump. Check valves are not reliable and the will also reduce flow.
On drains I like to use two 45's instead of a 90. You can sometimes get air in the flat section that will cause gurgling.

 

[Usctom]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[Fatmike92]

You could drill a small hole on the return that is barely under water. This will stop the water from siphoning back into the sump. Check valves are not reliable and the will also reduce flow.
On drains I like to use two 45's instead of a 90. You can sometimes get air in the flat section that will cause gurgling.

thanks that was something I was thinking about was it just seemed to flat and that it could cause some kind of problem whether it be blockage or noise. ill grab some 45s and see how that goes!

 

[AZDesertRat]

Check valves and drilled holes are both a false sense of security and totally unnecessary, they will fail even when maintained and usually at the worts possible time.
Keep your return under the water but close to the surface so only a vey small, very easily calculated amount of water flows back to the sump in a power outage and can easily be contained as long as you keep a couple inches of freeboard or spare room in your sump.
Once the level drops 1/2" or whereever you set your return it is exposed to atmosphere and the siphon breaks. You now have the best an simplest backflow prevention device known to man, an air gap. We al know water cannot jump uphill so it cannot flood, is not mechanical so needs no maintenance or cleaning and you can sleep soundly at night with no fears.

Using my systenm as an example, it holds 100 gallons and my returns are 3/4" below the surface. When the power goes off it flows a maximum of 3.4 gallons to my sump before the siphon breaks. I have a 30G sump and its is 2/3 full as that is where the skimmer works best so I have 10 gallons or freeboard at all times. I never worry about a flood and I don't have to clean any check valves or drilled holes and have no annoying water jetting out of a hole. If you think about it, a grain of sand, flake of food or algae can defeat the check valve, it does not have to be a catastrophic failure, even a trickle will flood in time if you don't catch it. Drilled holes can be covered by a snail, anemone. fish, food, algae or whatever and even if I cleaned it 10 minutes ago there is no guarante the power does not go off and suck that small fish up against it.

Design the return correctly from the beginning and floods are a non issue.

 

[Jlobes]

+1! listen to ^^that guy, he knows what hes talking about.

 

[Fatmike92]

Check valves and drilled holes are both a false sense of security and totally unnecessary, they will fail even when maintained and usually at the worts possible time.
Keep your return under the water but close to the surface so only a vey small, very easily calculated amount of water flows back to the sump in a power outage and can easily be contained as long as you keep a couple inches of freeboard or spare room in your sump.
Once the level drops 1/2" or whereever you set your return it is exposed to atmosphere and the siphon breaks. You now have the best an simplest backflow prevention device known to man, an air gap. We al know water cannot jump uphill so it cannot flood, is not mechanical so needs no maintenance or cleaning and you can sleep soundly at night with no fears.

Using my systenm as an example, it holds 100 gallons and my returns are 3/4" below the surface. When the power goes off it flows a maximum of 3.4 gallons to my sump before the siphon breaks. I have a 30G sump and its is 2/3 full as that is where the skimmer works best so I have 10 gallons or freeboard at all times. I never worry about a flood and I don't have to clean any check valves or drilled holes and have no annoying water jetting out of a hole. If you think about it, a grain of sand, flake of food or algae can defeat the check valve, it does not have to be a catastrophic failure, even a trickle will flood in time if you don't catch it. Drilled holes can be covered by a snail, anemone. fish, food, algae or whatever and even if I cleaned it 10 minutes ago there is no guarante the power does not go off and suck that small fish up against it.

Design the return correctly from the beginning and floods are a non issue.

Again thank you for the help! I was thinking the same thing that if I keep the returns higher then even if it does create a syphon incase of power failure then it will only drain a little bit from the return. So I will definitely be doing that! I never wanted to mess with check valves anyways!

any other suggestions on the set up?

Im going to do two 45 degree elbows so there is a more gradual turn into the sump area and that way it keeps it from gurgling. does that sound right?

 

[Fatmike92]

+1! listen to ^^that guy, he knows what hes talking about.

ha I know so far I have just been going off his word! and a couple helpful tips here and there

 

[AZDesertRat]

On the vertical piece of pipe and drilled cap for the exterior part of the overflow, make sure you extend it above the high water level in the tank or tank rim to prevent possible floods from that point.

I found from personal experience on my systems, I like reinforced vinyl tubing better than PVC and elbows for my overflow down to the sump. It is quieter since it has a smoother more laminar flow and is easier to get into the sump without a bunch of bends and fittings. I made the tubing long enough it enters the sump and travels in a long 90 degree sweep along the bottom so I don't have any burping or bubble problems. When water is falling straight down by gravity and bouncing off elbows and stuff it can be annoying and noisy, especially in a quiet room. For the returns its not so much as issue because the pipe is full and under a slight pressure so you will not have eddy currents and trapped air.

 

[Fatmike92]

On the vertical piece of pipe and drilled cap for the exterior part of the overflow, make sure you extend it above the high water level in the tank or tank rim to prevent possible floods from that point.

I found from personal experience on my systems, I like reinforced vinyl tubing better than PVC and elbows for my overflow down to the sump. It is quieter since it has a smoother more laminar flow and is easier to get into the sump without a bunch of bends and fittings. I made the tubing long enough it enters the sump and travels in a long 90 degree sweep along the bottom so I don't have any burping or bubble problems. When water is falling straight down by gravity and bouncing off elbows and stuff it can be annoying and noisy, especially in a quiet room. For the returns its not so much as issue because the pipe is full and under a slight pressure so you will not have eddy currents and trapped air.

So you suggest some kind of reinforced vinyl tubing that I would run from the drain all the way down to the sump? that seems much easier!

So below my shut off I could do an adapter for 1.5" reinforced vinyl tubing and run that down to the sump correct?