Plumbing manifold design

[CoreyWakefield123]

I am planning plumbing for my 265 reef with 90 gallon sump. I'll have two return pumps and two overflows. My question is how to design the manifold with both pumps. Id like to have each pump feed one of the overflows. Should I have a manifold off only one pump and turn up that pumps output to compensate or have 2 manifolds maybe 2 outlets on each return pump? TIA
@crusso1993

 

[crusso1993]

Depending on the pumps, I would do 2 outputs off of each pump totaling 4 returns to the tank. Then, of course, you could use loc-line to aim them for best circulation flow.

BTW - will you be using a bean animal for the overflows?

 

[CoreyWakefield123]

Depending on the pumps, I would do 2 outputs off of each pump totaling 4 returns to the tank. Then, of course, you could use loc-line to aim them for best circulation flow.

BTW - will you be using a bean animal for the overflows?

Thats what I was thinking but as you've learned I want to keep it purdy
It's just the standard overflow that came with the marineland tank.

 

[CoreyWakefield123]

I was thinking 2 of these bad boys

 

[crusso1993]

Thats what I was thinking but as you've learned I want to keep it purdy
It's just the standard overflow that came with the marineland tank.

I don't know what the standard overflow is that comes with a Marineland 265 tank. I'm guessing it's a Durso with return but don't know the size. Hopefully, if it is a Durso, it's a 1.5" Durso and 1" return. Please let me know.

I was thinking 2 of these bad boys

Reef Octopus makes a good pump and have very good reviews. Depending on your overflow size, you may be able to use a VarioS 6 and save $150+.

 

[CoreyWakefield123]

I don't know what the standard overflow is that comes with a Marineland 265 tank. I'm guessing it's a Durso with return but don't know the size. Hopefully, if it is a Durso, it's a 1.5" Durso and 1" return. Please let me know.



Reef Octopus makes a good pump and have very good reviews. Depending on your overflow size, you may be able to use a VarioS 6 and save $150+.

Yes it's a durso. The return is 1"and the drain pipe is 1.5" however there is a coupling on the drain that reduces it at the bulkhead so you can put the return in either hole. I don't think it'll make much of a difference since I'll be using the 1.5" drain pvc under the tank. So there is a bit of a hindrance in flow right where the bulkhead is.

Perhaps I could get away with it but I'd rather spend a bit extra and have them turned down if needed but have the option for the additional flow. We'll see once I get that far ahead. The next steps are...
- wait for the sump and plumb the tank
- buy return pumps
- buy dry rock (thinking 250 lb marco rock)
-spend a good amount of time cementing and using rods to create an open aquascape with plenty of arches and caves but is stable while the major peices can be removed (hence the rods)
- sand
- buy an ro/di filter
-fill er up and begin cycling 4 months in dark
- buy 2 maxspect gyre (waiting for the 3000 series)
- buy lights, protein skimmer, calcium reactor

 

[CoreyWakefield123]

I don't know what the standard overflow is that comes with a Marineland 265 tank. I'm guessing it's a Durso with return but don't know the size. Hopefully, if it is a Durso, it's a 1.5" Durso and 1" return. Please let me know.



Reef Octopus makes a good pump and have very good reviews. Depending on your overflow size, you may be able to use a VarioS 6 and save $150+.

You can see the reducer here but the pipe is 1.5"

 

[crusso1993]

You can see the reducer here but the pipe is 1.5"

Well, that's a lot of bs. It effectively turns your 1.5 inch into a 1 inch. Have you looked around to see if you could swap out the bulkhead with one that has a true 1.5 throughput? It will definitely be worth your time to get a 1.5" flowthrough. Below is a chart that shows the difference between 1" and 1.5". You can see the difference is huge.

BTW - if it were mine, I'd make the return an emergency OF and run the returns using flex pvc to 1" "u" fittings into the tank. Then use loc-line out of the "u" fitting. This will effectively turn your Durso into a Herbie and help avoid any problems with emergencies that a Durso simply does not offer.

Chart below and the link to the flexpvc site too. I cannot recall if I shared it with you but flexpvc is a great resource.

https://flexpvc.com/Reference/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml

 

[CoreyWakefield123]

Well, that's a lot of crap. It effectively turns your 1.5 inch into a 1 inch. Have you looked around to see if you could swap out the bulkhead with one that has a true 1.5 throughput? It will definitely be worth your time to get a 1.5" flowthrough. Below is a chart that shows the difference between 1" and 1.5". You can see the difference is huge.

BTW - if it were mine, I'd make the return an emergency OF and run the returns using flex pvc to 1" "u" fittings into the tank. Then use loc-line out of the "u" fitting. This will effectively turn your Durso into a Herbie and help avoid any problems with emergencies that a Durso simply does not offer.

Chart below and the link to the flexpvc site too. I cannot recall if I shared it with you but flexpvc is a great resource.

https://flexpvc.com/Reference/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml

I dont think having the small coupling would equate to the entire drain being 1". Sure it will reduce flow but I think since it's just that one spot it'll be minor as opposed to the entire drain being 1". I'd have to do some research on that style of overflow. My only concern would be it would allow more water to drain from the tank/overflow in a power outage. Not much more but I'm already unsure of how much I have to play with in my sump. I should have about 20 gallons extra that could drain. With a lower secondary drain thats more water that's going to go into the sump

 

[crusso1993]

I dont think having the small coupling would equate to the entire drain being 1". Sure it will reduce flow but I think since it's just that one spot it'll be minor as opposed to the entire drain being 1". I'd have to do some research on that style of overflow. My only concern would be it would allow more water to drain from the tank/overflow in a power outage. Not much more but I'm already unsure of how much I have to play with in my sump. I should have about 20 gallons extra that could drain. With a lower secondary drain thats more water that's going to go into the sump

The OF will be that of a 1" pipe.

With the emergency OF, you simply place it about 1/8" above your waterline. That way, if something gets stuck in your regular OF, the water being pumped from your sump back to the tank will rise an 1"8 of an inch and flow through the emergency. As for overfilling your sump, the returns will go just under the water surface.

I'm sure you can research all of this online and will go with what you like. If it were me, I'd go Herbie with 1.5" overflows and 1" returns.

BTW - a Herbie is WAY more quite than a Durso.

 

[CoreyWakefield123]

The OF will be that of a 1" pipe.

With the emergency OF, you simply place it about 1/8" above your waterline. That way, if something gets stuck in your regular OF, the water being pumped from your sump back to the tank will rise an 1"8 of an inch and flow through the emergency. As for overfilling your sump, the returns will go just under the water surface.

I'm sure you can research all of this online and will go with what you like. If it were me, I'd go Herbie with 1.5" overflows and 1" returns.

BTW - a Herbie is WAY more quite than a Durso.

I gotta say buddy I sincerely appreciate all your help. You've been so helpful and responsive throughout this process and I am very greatful.

I do have a couple questions about that overflow method.
From what I understand about the herby is you have a main drain about halfway down the depth of the tank and an emergency that is just below the water level so theres just a trickle.
If the concern is having only a 1" drain then wouldnt having the herby which requires you to close off the main slightly to adjust the water level enough to get the trickle in the emergency not really increase the flow through the drains? I mean yes I would have 4 drains but the 2 main are slightly closed and the emergency is just barely trickling so this doesn't seem like it would drain more than having 2 1" drains fully open.

Also when referring to the amount of water draining into the sump during an outage I wasnt speaking about the returns siphoning but the amount that drains from the display into the sump untill the water level drops below the drain in the overflow. Ive calculated this to be about 10-15 gallons on my tank. This was based on the water level full and the water level after it drops below the grate on the overflow and below the drain in the overflow. If I have the main drain halfway down the overflow like the herby method this means the water has to drop all the way down to below the main drain before it stops. This would add several gallons to that.

Thanks again buddy

 

[CoreyWakefield123]

One more question. If I did do this I only have 3 drain bulkheads on my sump. Could I have one for each of the main drains and join the 2 emergency drains into a y to go into the 3rd bulkhead on the sump?

 

[crusso1993]

I gotta say buddy I sincerely appreciate all your help. You've been so helpful and responsive throughout this process and I am very greatful.

I do have a couple questions about that overflow method.
From what I understand about the herby is you have a main drain about halfway down the depth of the tank and an emergency that is just below the water level so theres just a trickle.
If the concern is having only a 1" drain then wouldnt having the herby which requires you to close off the main slightly to adjust the water level enough to get the trickle in the emergency not really increase the flow through the drains? I mean yes I would have 4 drains but the 2 main are slightly closed and the emergency is just barely trickling so this doesn't seem like it would drain more than having 2 1" drains fully open.

Also when referring to the amount of water draining into the sump during an outage I wasnt speaking about the returns siphoning but the amount that drains from the display into the sump untill the water level drops below the drain in the overflow. Ive calculated this to be about 10-15 gallons on my tank. This was based on the water level full and the water level after it drops below the grate on the overflow and below the drain in the overflow. If I have the main drain halfway down the overflow like the herby method this means the water has to drop all the way down to below the main drain before it stops. This would add several gallons to that.

Thanks again buddy

Ok chief... here we go! Lol

You are right about the plumbing of the Herbie. I accidentally wrote "above the water line" and meant to write "below the water line." So, good catch on that one! Sometimes my fingers don't do what my brain tells them to!

The 2 drain lines, the main (with valve) and emergency, will always equal the total GPH of 1 totally open line. So, whatever amount of water you throttle back with the valve on the main line will always be made up by the emergency drain line. In other words, let's say you throttle the main line back to 90% GPH. The additional 10% GPH will go down the emergency line. If you throttle the main line back to 50% GPH then the other 50% GPH will be made up by the emergency line. If you throttle the main line to 0% GPH (a complete clog) then 100% of the GPH will go through the emergency line. Please believe me when I tell you I only have your best interest in mind when saying you definitely want to have a 1.5" drain and 1" return with a Herbie.

During an outage the water level will only drop to the lowest intake part of your weir. Not to the level of the main drain line.

I hope this all makes sense. Written word explanations are not always my strong suit.

 

[crusso1993]

One more question. If I did do this I only have 3 drain bulkheads on my sump. Could I have one for each of the main drains and join the 2 emergency drains into a y to go into the 3rd bulkhead on the sump?

Yes, 2 main lines separate and 2 emergencies can be y'ed together. However, I would use adapters at the y and flow them into a 2.5" pipe.

 

[JoshH]

Ok chief... here we go! Lol

You are right about the plumbing of the Herbie. I accidentally wrote "above the water line" and meant to write "below the water line." So, good catch on that one! Sometimes my fingers don't do what my brain tells them to!

The 2 drain lines, the main (with valve) and emergency, will always equal the total GPH of 1 totally open line. So, whatever amount of water you throttle back with the valve on the main line will always be made up by the emergency drain line. In other words, let's say you throttle the main line back to 90% GPH. The additional 10% GPH will go down the emergency line. If you throttle the main line back to 50% GPH then the other 50% GPH will be made up by the emergency line. If you throttle the main line to 0% GPH (a complete clog) then 100% of the GPH will go through the emergency line. Please believe me when I tell you I only have your best interest in mind when saying you definitely want to have a 1.5" drain and 1" return with a Herbie.

During an outage the water level will only drop to the lowest intake part of your weir. Not to the level of the main drain line.

I hope this all makes sense. Written word explanations are not always my strong suit.

Lots of good information being shared here but I feel there needs to be a little correction with this. The amount of diverted water to the emergency will not always equal out to 100% of the flow of a completely open line (it will always equal out 100% of your return pipes flow, BTW I'm sure this is what you meant). This depends greatly on the flow rate of your return pump and whether or not it can match the full siphon flow of the main drain line. If your main siphon can handle 1600 GPH but your return pump only flows 800. Then closing the main siphon line valve to 50% of its flow would just barely get water to the emergency drain line and would still put 100% of the flow down the main siphon.

 

[JoshH]

@CoreyWakefield123 do you have a picture of your tank? I'm guessing it has two separate overflows with a 1 Inch durso in each?

 

[CoreyWakefield123]

Ok chief... here we go! Lol

You are right about the plumbing of the Herbie. I accidentally wrote "above the water line" and meant to write "below the water line." So, good catch on that one! Sometimes my fingers don't do what my brain tells them to!

The 2 drain lines, the main (with valve) and emergency, will always equal the total GPH of 1 totally open line. So, whatever amount of water you throttle back with the valve on the main line will always be made up by the emergency drain line. In other words, let's say you throttle the main line back to 90% GPH. The additional 10% GPH will go down the emergency line. If you throttle the main line back to 50% GPH then the other 50% GPH will be made up by the emergency line. If you throttle the main line to 0% GPH (a complete clog) then 100% of the GPH will go through the emergency line. Please believe me when I tell you I only have your best interest in mind when saying you definitely want to have a 1.5" drain and 1" return with a Herbie.

During an outage the water level will only drop to the lowest intake part of your weir. Not to the level of the main drain line.

I hope this all makes sense. Written word explanations are not always my strong suit.

Lol it makes sense mostly. But if I'm stuck with 1" drains would it benefit me to even do the herbie besides the benefit of being quiet and having the emergency which to me seems kind of redundant. The holes drilled are like 1.75"so too small for 1.5"bulkhead but I can use 1.5" pipe but as you said before it won't matter if there is a reducer to 1"even if I open it back up to 1.5 after the bulkhead it would still equate to 1".

And yes I understand that the water will drop to the lowest part of the weir but the water inside the overflow will also drop to the lowest drain. With the durso set up it is only about 0.5" but if I do the herbie and have the main drain down half way thats several more gallons that I need to account for. I should be ok but it's hard for me to say before seeing my sump and how much extra I have in it.

 

[crusso1993]

Lots of good information being shared here but I feel there needs to be a little correction with this. The amount of diverted water to the emergency will not always equal out to 100% of the flow of a completely open line (it will always equal out 100% of your return pipes flow). This depends greatly on the flow rate of your return pump and whether or not it can match the full siphon flow of the main drain line. If your main siphon can handle 1600 GPH but your return pump only flows 800. Then closing the main siphon line valve to 50% of its flow would just barely get water to the emergency drain line and would still put 100% of the flow down the main siphon.

Well said and thanks for your clarification! I was trying to take into account the pumps he'll be using on his return.

 

[CoreyWakefield123]

@CoreyWakefield123 do you have a picture of your tank? I'm guessing it has two separate overflows with a 1 Inch durso in each?

Yes the holes are for 1" bulkheads but the pipe on the drains is 1.5"
You can see there is a reducer on the drain to fit it into the 1" bulkhead.

As far as the return pumps go I'll have more than enough as I'm looking at 2 reef octo varios 8 which are rated at 2700 gph

 

[crusso1993]

Lol it makes sense mostly. But if I'm stuck with 1" drains would it benefit me to even do the herbie besides the benefit of being quiet and having the emergency which to me seems kind of redundant. The holes drilled are like 1.75"so too small for 1.5"bulkhead but I can use 1.5" pipe but as you said before it won't matter if there is a reducer to 1"even if I open it back up to 1.5 after the bulkhead it would still equate to 1".

And yes I understand that the water will drop to the lowest part of the weir but the water inside the overflow will also drop to the lowest drain. With the durso set up it is only about 0.5" but if I do the herbie and have the main drain down half way thats several more gallons that I need to account for. I should be ok but it's hard for me to say before seeing my sump and how much extra I have in it.

You are right about the remaining water in the OF compartment. I thought you had accounted for that in the "15-20" gallons you mentioned. My bad on that... ;Yawn