Plumbing setup Help

[exarkun1178]

Hi members,

I have used the search feature and have found a lot of content about plumbing a system, however my specific conditions do not seem to match what ive read and would now ask for your help.

My local fish store closed down this month. Ive been working with him for last few years with my 14g Bio Cube. Weve been talking about my big tank for more then a year but had been waiting on the new home. As luck would have it, I have a new home down and he closed up shop.

I have been watching BRS videos for years. My next call was to them. however the CSR explained I first need to have a plan to plum the system before he can help me order what I need. Well, I was hoping he could help me decide what I need. To no avail... The CSR last recommendation was I jump on a forum and ask.

My intention, I want to do a FO with limited rock for the time being. My ultimate goal is a reef, but I am in no position to tackle this as I just moved. I want to get a few nice fish and over time add rock. Then move the tank to the soon to be built fish room (~2 years).

My specs. 144" long, 18" tall, 14" deep. ~155 gallons. The tank came reef ready with three holes. 2 holes are with in each of the two overflows found on the far ends of the tank. these holes are 3.5" in diameter. The third hole is found in the center rear panel high up. The tank came with bulk heads, the drain hole is 2" and the fill hole is 1.25"

I am doing a DIY sump for the time being. This is in an effort to safe a few bucks until I can have a sump made for my 14" with restriction.

1. My first issue is how to manage the two drain tubes.
   1. Much of what I read talks about a siphon. I cant do a siphon with two drain tubes
   2. Most of what Ive read has 2 holes within each overflow box, mine has a single large hole
      1. In the two hole setup, one is emergency, the other for the siphon
      2. If I use one over flow as the siphon and the other as the emergency, I am concerned there will be little if any flow at the emergency end of the tank
   3. tying together the two drains means I will lose the option to siphon.

BRS did help me select a return pump and hosing.

I ordered a RO/DI system.

I am choosing not to order any lighting at this time.

How would you recommend I manage the drain pipes into the sump?

Thank you in advance.
Ex.

 

[redfishbluefish]

In a typical two hole corner overflow, one hole is the drain while the second is the return. Since you have one hole in each overflow, they are both drains. I'd recommend a durso style pipe arrangement in each overflow. If not durso, than maggie muffler.....and either one is inexpensively DIY'ed. With your sump, and if you have the height, I'd suggest a 75 gallon DIY sump, I'd run one drain into one back corner of the sump and the second drain into the other back corner. The middle section of the sump would be the return...with additional space to include an refugium and whatever. I too have a dual drain setup into a 40 B sump, draining into the back corners of the sump. Here's a picture

Back left drain goes into a filter sock, right drain goes into the refugium. Center section is the return.

 

[stevo01]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/h...flows-into-a-full-siphon-drain-system.261720/

@ReeferBob

 

[glb]

DIY sumps aren't hard to build and save a ton of money. Make sure you use 1/4" thick glass for dividers. It helps to get the equipment for the sump first to make sure you have enough room and so you can measure the compartments correctly. My sump has 3 compartments: one for the drain pipe and skimmer, one for the gfo reactor and other filter media, and one for the return pump. Good luck and ask a lot of questions here!

 

[ReeferBob]

Definitely follow my video posted above and do a Herbie in each overflow compartment. The 2 holes in each overflow will be drains - 1 full siphon, 1 open channel/trickle drain. The holes drilled in the back will be for returns.

After reading again, I hope you meant to say you have 2 holes in EACH overflow compartment. If you only have 1 hole in each, you are kind of screwed whoever made this tank had very little idea what they were doing. If this is the case, my strong suggestion is to remove the weirs (overflow compartments) and silicone a piece of glass over the bottom drilled holes and re-drill the side of your tank for a Bean-Animal style overflow.

 

[david p.]

hi,

here's an exemple of my DIY sump in a 40B. i have removed all the lectric from the sump in another cabinet. don't mind the higth water lvl, my pump was off for feeding.
drain from tank are behind my skimmer. return on the right feeding DT and manifold (UV, GFO and Carbon) .

 

[MaiReef]

One option is your emergency drains could be drilled in the back next to the overflows.
Another is the maggie kit.

As far as the sump goes, I did a variation of the previous DIY sump. 3/8 - 1/4" glass in sump at least.

 

[Lowstorm]

I've seen this set up before, and it's not the worst in the world... I actually owned it but it took me a while to remember how the pipes were.

From the hole the pipe went straight up. At the top there as a upside down U shape. There was a hole drilled in the top with an airline in it, and a restrictor on the end so you coups adjust for noise.
I don't remember what type of drain it was called, as it's been 9 years since I got rid of that tank. Some of the other old time members probably know what the name of it was. We didn't have emergency drains when setting up that sort of drainpipe. Just made sure that the last section of the return was the lowest water level we could do so if something went wrong the tank wouldn't overflow.

 

[ReeferBob]

I've seen this set up before, and it's not the worst in the world... I actually owned it but it took me a while to remember how the pipes were.

From the hole the pipe went straight up. At the top there as a upside down U shape. There was a hole drilled in the top with an airline in it, and a restrictor on the end so you coups adjust for noise.
I don't remember what type of drain it was called, as it's been 9 years since I got rid of that tank. Some of the other old time members probably know what the name of it was. We didn't have emergency drains when setting up that sort of drainpipe. Just made sure that the last section of the return was the lowest water level we could do so if something went wrong the tank wouldn't overflow.

It is a Durso. Noisy and obsolete by today's standards although aquarium makers are slow to change. Any setup today should be using a full-siphon drain.

 

[Lowstorm]

There we go.

But Honestly sometimes when you have what you have you gotta use it. Heck, I'm using an eshopps overflow on my tank, as at the time it's what was available to me. Yes, I'll be drilling someday, but gotta use what you're given.

 

[MaiReef]

I modified a Stockman standpipe and with two overflows it should work well. I used a 1"-1.25" coupling and ran a 1.25" up to a 1.5" coupling held on by the silicone plumbing tape instead of the gasket from the repair kit. I was able to them get to use the full length of the coupling for more holes under it and it works great. I can even go siphon without a break, but I don't trust that with one. The key is controlling the airflow going into the top. Too much and there is a sucking sound, too little and your drain turns into a wet/dry fun system where the water level goes up and down, but it works. The other thing that I will mention is that you want the standpipe holes to start about 3/8" below the cuts in the overflow. Next tank I will be doing a Herbie, but I have what I have now and it works.

 

[exarkun1178]

Definitely follow my video posted above and do a Herbie in each overflow compartment. The 2 holes in each overflow will be drains - 1 full siphon, 1 open channel/trickle drain. The holes drilled in the back will be for returns.

After reading again, I hope you meant to say you have 2 holes in EACH overflow compartment. If you only have 1 hole in each, you are kind of screwed whoever made this tank had very little idea what they were doing. If this is the case, my strong suggestion is to remove the weirs (overflow compartments) and silicone a piece of glass over the bottom drilled holes and re-drill the side of your tank for a Bean-Animal style overflow.

I "only have 1 hole in each". What I have to manage is the the water above the siphon pipe and all the water from the sump emptying into the tank.

Ill post my most current idea in a min. Thank you all for the feedback.

 

[exarkun1178]

As of now, based on your feedback here is what Ive come up with.

I found a food safe rubbermaid container last night at Home Depot. Its tall and long, but as just a bit too wide (16.7", my goal was 14"), but i think ill manage.

Three tubs, with bulk head fittings connected in a series. I think what matter most here is the height of the cross over pipes. either side tub with various equipment feeds into the return tub. The return tub holds the pump.

Each overflow will manage its own siphon. Should either or both siphons break only the volume of water in the return tub will be feed back into the tank. As long as this can be absorbed by the tank I should be good.

On the reverse end, should the return pump fail, the tubs need to handle the water above the siphon entry point. The size of the tubs will provide plenty of space for this.

Your feedback?

 

[Lowstorm]

People have done it before. That said... it's not the safest,if one of the connecting pipes in-between the tubs breaks, leaks, or something you'll have way more water on the floor.

 

[exarkun1178]

People have done it before. That said... it's not the safest,if one of the connecting pipes in-between the tubs breaks, leaks, or something you'll have way more water on the floor.

That is true. Should that happen the whole thing is %$#@ed. With 4 points of failure susceptible I acknowledge the risk and concern. managing those four points matter. I suppose it would be the volume of water between the entry to the siphon and the top of the tank, plus the volume of water in all three tubs.

 

[MaiReef]

What about a larger sump where the sides can just use gravity to the return section and placing the ATO in the return section?

 

[redfishbluefish]

If you are talking about Rubbermaid storage bins like this:

I highly recommend not using them. They eventually become brittle and crack....first hand experience here!

The other issue with storage bins is that the sides bow out when filled with water.....not good!

I mentioned it earlier, if it fits, I suggest a 75 gallon tank that you DIY into a sump.

Here's a 75 I built for a friend:

 

[ReeferBob]

You won't be able to maintain with any consistency a full-siphon without a 2nd drain to catch a trickle of water. The short answer is you can't do a full siphon with a single drain. Full siphon drains need to work as a pair. You run "slightly" more return water than the full-siphon can handle and that extra slowly trickles in your open channel drain. If you don't want to drill the side, you are limited to a Durso setup with what you have (1 Durso in each compartment). You almost certainly cannot drill the bottom since they are usually tempered once drilled at the factory. Durso's are ok if you have no other choice. They are noisy and are limited to how much water they will flow.

 

[Lowstorm]

Can't He do a full siphon drain in one side and the trickle in the other? There would be reduced flow for The sump but it's probably doable.

 

[beaslbob]

I like using storage containers for refugium and sump.

You could also build an overflow from pvc pipe.

I think you are doing great planning and recommend you setup a garage test system (just using some storage containers if nothing else. Then test and adjust to get a feel how a sump system works. there should be no flood power out and power return and no flood should the drain fail (blockage/siphon break)

my .02