PNS PROBIO and Carbon dosing

[thirst]

I generally used zeovit (bak/ sponge power, zeofood and zeo start)

I assume start is the carbon source? My current po4 is around .15 and nitrate around 1...

wondering if I should dose anything else to help the PNS

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

I generally used zeovit (bak/ sponge power, zeofood and zeo start)

I assume start is the carbon source? My current po4 is around .15 and nitrate around 1...

wondering if I should dose anything else to help the PNS

They'll grow just fine in most situations without any help. They can fix nitrogen, so even if they consume all of the NH4/NO2/NO3 they won't starve. They can also fix carbon, so even if you have extremely low levels of DOC (say, if you run GAC aggressively) they'll just use CO2 like algae. They do like higher PO4 levels and will slow down as you hit ULN levels, but that should be fine as that makes bottoming out unlikely (and you have plenty right now anyway). The only thing is B vitamins--they can synthesize most or all of the essential Bs, but nevertheless grow significantly faster when they can obtain them from their environment. That's one reason PNS YelloSno is such a good companion product (it's rich in B vits). The only other thing I can think of that possibly could be scarce for them in an aquarium is molybdenum (especially for anaerobic growth).

 

[thirst]

They'll grow just fine in most situations without any help. They can fix nitrogen, so even if they consume all of the NH4/NO2/NO3 they won't starve. They can also fix carbon, so even if you have extremely low levels of DOC (say, if you run GAC aggressively) they'll just use CO2 like algae. They do like higher PO4 levels and will slow down as you hit ULN levels, but that should be fine as that makes bottoming out unlikely (and you have plenty right now anyway). The only thing is B vitamins--they can synthesize most or all of the essential Bs, but nevertheless grow significantly faster when they can obtain them from their environment. That's one reason PNS YelloSno is such a good companion product (it's rich in B vits). The only other thing I can think of that possibly could be scarce for them in an aquarium is molybdenum (especially for anaerobic growth).

Thank you for the response. I did dose w yellosno. So that should be ok.

I do plan to possibly only dose PNS without the sno at some points so will need to find an alternate source of b vitamin

 

[Rototank]

Yes, you got it. ^^^ Vinegar is a great carbon source these guys (maybe ideal). They're pretty good at reducing phosphate. Check this out: https://www.hydrospace.store/post/removing-phosphate-with-pns-bacteria

How much would you dose? The 1.25ml/gallon as in the bottle?

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

How much would you dose? The 1.25ml/gallon as in the bottle?

To start, yes. That is given as a recommended maximum daily dose. You can then move up or down in small increments as needed/desired. Since every tank is different (and the main purpose for dosing can differ), different situations can vary. Generally, the hope is that these bacteria establish large permanent populations in the system so that dosage can decrease over time.

 

[Biologic]

@kennethwingerter I’ve dosed this product plus PNS YellowSno, PNSBio, plus MB7, and was carbon dosing acetic acid and easily saw phosphate and nitrate drop to the point Hanna tests cannot test for it. If I am approaching my tank using “bacteria as food” mindset, granular ferric oxide isn’t necessary.

Mind you, I don’t have a large fish population. As a result, I am dosing PO4 and NO3 to keep up with demand to make sure ‘good bacteria’ remain in balance and in dominance in my system.

Really impressed with the product!

 

[Big E]

@kennethwingerter I’ve dosed this product plus PNS YellowSno, PNSBio, plus MB7, and was carbon dosing acetic acid and easily saw phosphate and nitrate drop to the point Hanna tests cannot test for it. If I am approaching my tank using “bacteria as food” mindset, granular ferric oxide isn’t necessary.

Mind you, I don’t have a large fish population. As a result, I am dosing PO4 and NO3 to keep up with demand to make sure ‘good bacteria’ remain in balance and in dominance in my system.

Really impressed with the product!

I'm curious why you are dosing the MB7 with this product?

Any thoughts of pulling it and just going with the PNS pro bio?

 

[Biologic]

I'm curious why you are dosing the MB7 with this product?

Any thoughts of pulling it and just going with the PNS pro bio?

I am adhering to a bacteria smorgasbord soup idea. I do not want any one overly dominant strain of bacteria in the tank. Essentially all of the bacterial driven systems use multiple strains of bacteria in their products. Why MB7? Happens to be cost effective. Why PNS probio? Reading about this well studied strain of bacteria, it’s clearly demonstrated its ability to be very adaptable to a wide variety of environments and not too picky on food sources.

 

[Big E]

I am adhering to a bacteria smorgasbord soup idea. I do not want any one overly dominant strain of bacteria in the tank. Essentially all of the bacterial driven systems use multiple strains of bacteria in their products. Why MB7? Happens to be cost effective. Why PNS probio? Reading about this well studied strain of bacteria, it’s clearly demonstrated its ability to be very adaptable to a wide variety of environments and not too picky on food sources.

Thanks for the response. I'm using MB7 and vinegar now and am interested in using PNS due to it's ability to work on PO4. So far MB7 has given me positive results in some areas but not the best for reducing P04.

I wanted to give PNS a try but am leaning towards only using that if I make the change.

A lot of those bacterial systems have the same issue...........can't get a handle on P04. Zeo is the only one I know of that consistently drives both down well without having to use GFO.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

@kennethwingerter I’ve dosed this product plus PNS YellowSno, PNSBio, plus MB7, and was carbon dosing acetic acid and easily saw phosphate and nitrate drop to the point Hanna tests cannot test for it. If I am approaching my tank using “bacteria as food” mindset, granular ferric oxide isn’t necessary.

Mind you, I don’t have a large fish population. As a result, I am dosing PO4 and NO3 to keep up with demand to make sure ‘good bacteria’ remain in balance and in dominance in my system.

Really impressed with the product!

Great to hear! Easier (and less expensive) to add depleted NO3/PO4 than it is to remove excess, right?

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

"While able to survive in virtually any environment, PSNB are "in their element" where there is little-to-no oxygen, at least some light and plentiful organic matter (deep sand beds, under live rock, within porous filter media, etc.). This makes them very much unlike "traditional" nitrifying bacteria which prefer dark, highly aerated environments and utilize only inorganic carbon sources (e.g. CO2). Thus, rather than competing with the nitrifiers found in typical biofilters, the PNS bacteria in Hydrospace™ PNS Substrate Sauce™ actually complement them. In so doing, they reduce the amount of time required to complete the nitrogen cycle in new aquaria! Additionally, unlike the aerobic nitrifiers, PNS bacteria can perform denitrification, converting nitrate into harmless nitrogen gas."

Home

Live copepods & phytoplankton, Premium Macroalgae, Captive Bred Fish, and so much more... Marine aquariums are Made Easy with AlgaeBarn!

www.algaebarn.com

 

[Biologic]

"While able to survive in virtually any environment, PSNB are "in their element" where there is little-to-no oxygen, at least some light and plentiful organic matter (deep sand beds, under live rock, within porous filter media, etc.). This makes them very much unlike "traditional" nitrifying bacteria which prefer dark, highly aerated environments and utilize only inorganic carbon sources (e.g. CO2). Thus, rather than competing with the nitrifiers found in typical biofilters, the PNS bacteria in Hydrospace™ PNS Substrate Sauce™ actually complement them. In so doing, they reduce the amount of time required to complete the nitrogen cycle in new aquaria! Additionally, unlike the aerobic nitrifiers, PNS bacteria can perform denitrification, converting nitrate into harmless nitrogen gas."

Home

Live copepods & phytoplankton, Premium Macroalgae, Captive Bred Fish, and so much more... Marine aquariums are Made Easy with AlgaeBarn!

www.algaebarn.com

Definitely want to try out the new species! Gotta catch them all!

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@Kenneth Wingerter, will PNS Pro Bio get rid of cyano? I have been battling it for a couple months now. It is getting better, but seems to just hang on. Not sure if the bacteria in the Pro Bio would outcompete the cyano and any concerns about using it for that. The cyano started after my nutrient rose due to lack of tank maintenance during COVID. I have since gotten my nutrients back to normal using phyto and regular maintenance. My NO3 is always less than 1ppm and my PO4 is alway less than 0.03 ppm. I'm not sure if the bacteria would cause more problems than it solves.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

@Kenneth Wingerter, will PNS Pro Bio get rid of cyano? I have been battling it for a couple months now. It is getting better, but seems to just hang on. Not sure if the bacteria in the Pro Bio would outcompete the cyano and any concerns about using it for that. The cyano started after my nutrient rose due to lack of tank maintenance during COVID. I have since gotten my nutrients back to normal using phyto and regular maintenance. My NO3 is always less than 1ppm and my PO4 is alway less than 0.03 ppm. I'm not sure if the bacteria would cause more problems than it solves.

Thanks for any help.

Sorry to hear of your cyano issues, though it sounds like you're going in the right direction with respects to your nutrient levels (particularly your phosphate). Have you done anything to reduce your dissolved organic carbon levels (e.g. GAC)? A great many cyano species are facultatively heterotrophic. They benefit from elevated DOC, whereas low NH4/NO2/NO3 doesn't inhibit them much because they can fix their own nitrogen.

PNS bacteria definitely won't cause any more problems, but I unfortunately cannot say with certainty that they'd help, either. Just not enough hard evidence of any direct anti-cyano activity, yet. There are indeed some reports of these bacteria reducing cyano growth; IF these bacteria were attributable to the reduced cyano growth, my guess would be that was through competition for both phosphate and organic carbon (these guys are heterotrophs as well). For all it's worth, I've never, ever seen as much as a speck of cyano in any our test systems, which of course were regularly dosed with these bacteria. Maybe there's something to the competition theories?

Interestingly, they also synthesize the antibiotic streptomycin, which is shown to inhibit at least some cyano species. If antibiotic activity is a factor in cyano suppression by these guys, it's something we'd see more as a long-term rather than immediate effect (you'd have to establish sizable colonies of PNS bacteria in your rock/substrate before they could collectively release enough strepto to create a "zone of inhibition" between them and the encroaching cyano film).

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Sorry to hear of your cyano issues, though it sounds like you're going in the right direction with respects to your nutrient levels (particularly your phosphate). Have you done anything to reduce your dissolved organic carbon levels (e.g. GAC)? A great many cyano species are facultatively heterotrophic. They benefit from elevated DOC, whereas low NH4/NO2/NO3 doesn't inhibit them much because they can fix their own nitrogen.

PNS bacteria definitely won't cause any more problems, but I unfortunately cannot say with certainty that they'd help, either. Just not enough hard evidence of any direct anti-cyano activity, yet. There are indeed some reports of these bacteria reducing cyano growth; IF these bacteria were attributable to the reduced cyano growth, my guess would be that was through competition for both phosphate and organic carbon (these guys are heterotrophs as well). For all it's worth, I've never, ever seen as much as a speck of cyano in any our test systems, which of course were regularly dosed with these bacteria. Maybe there's something to the competition theories?

Interestingly, they also synthesize the antibiotic streptomycin, which is shown to inhibit at least some cyano species. If antibiotic activity is a factor in cyano suppression by these guys, it's something we'd see more as a long-term rather than immediate effect (you'd have to establish sizable colonies of PNS bacteria in your rock/substrate before they could collectively release enough strepto to create a "zone of inhibition" between them and the encroaching cyano film).

Thank you for the info. Yes, I am reducing the DOC by regular vacuuming of my sand again and I am running GAC in a sock. My skimmer seems to be slowly making headway as well. I am trying to take it slow and manually remove it, but it does get old. I guess it is payback for my lack of attention for several months. I’ll just stay the course.