PNS Yellosno: Have you used it

[Aquanautical]

Has anybody used this product by hydrospace?

I've used both reef roids and nutricell to feed corals, but both pollute my tank too much and have always led to nuisance algae. I am intrigued by Yellosno because it is bacteria based and quite true to what natural marine snow is composed of.

Wondering what my fellow reefers here have to say about it before I test it myself.

 

[Big G]

Bump

 

[AlgaeBarn]

We have reached out to the creator of the YelloSno. It's a relatively new product. He should be able to give you some more product details

 

[Snuggs]

I was intrigued by this product

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hi, this is Kenneth Wingerter. I'm the owner of the company that makes this product. It would be my pleasure to answer any questions you may have, even if I joined in a bit late.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hi, this is Kenneth Wingerter. I'm the owner of the company that makes this product. It would be my pleasure to answer any questions you may have, even if I joined in a bit late.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hi, this is Kenneth Wingerter. I'm the owner of the company that makes this product. It would be my pleasure to answer any questions you may have, even if I joined in a bit late.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hi, this is Kenneth Wingerter. I'm the owner of the company that makes this product. It would be my pleasure to answer any questions you may have, even if I joined in a bit late.

 

[Aquanautical]

Hey Kenneth thanks for joining, your product jumped out to me as it seems to be the first coral food ive seen offered that accuretly recreates marine snow, I was just wondering if you could share some of your experiences in developing the final product? Im happy to test it out for you.

Does it seem to benefit sps to the extent of anemones and lps?

Thanks!

 

[Snuggs]

my understanding of R palustris is that nitrogen fixation happens under low oxygen concentrations and uses other carbon sources namely carbon dioxide or plant derived carbons under aerobic conditions. While this species is fascinating for many reasons , ( my hubby is an environmental engineer) can you further explain its usefulness in an enclosed marine environment
That being said I find the product to have potential for my system I would love a better chemical understanding

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hey Kenneth thanks for joining, your product jumped out to me as it seems to be the first coral food ive seen offered that accuretly recreates marine snow, I was just wondering if you could share some of your experiences in developing the final product? Im happy to test it out for you.

Does it seem to benefit sps to the extent of anemones and lps?

Thanks!

Thanks for your interest, Aquanautical. This came on the heels of PNS Probio (the flagship product) for which I tried approximately 50 different "recipes" and lighting conditions before settling on the final formulation, so too many experiences to tell! The short story is that over time I grew less interested in obtaining high pigmentation (in the bottled product) and more interested in things like endospore formation which increase its adaptability and shelf life. In the end I used a slightly modified version of this formula for PNS YelloSno. The conspicuous differences in the latter are a much higher culture salinity and the addition of chitin-based particulates. The microbes in YelloSno do eventually consume these poorly digestible particles (though this takes months). This is why the product must be refrigerated--it arrests their metabolism in the middle of the process. The partial decomp is one reason that the medium smells so horrific. There is a distinct sulfurous odor as in other similar products, but it emits a methane-like odor as well... if I may dare say so, it smells like butt. Luckily the odor dissipates quickly. Just don't get any on your hands right before you have to work!

I had a number of highly skilled reef aquarists that I know try this product in their systems late in the devo phase. Other than complaints about the smell (not one, but two of them, added way too much and reportedly had to leave the room, haha), I did get positive feedback from all with regards to polyp extension/feeding response. This was for both LPS and SPS corals. I never heard anything about effects on anemones. To my disappointment, there was no noticeable effect on some gorgonians in one of the systems. It does seem from the scientific literature I've read that this species (Rhodopseudomonas palustris) most directly benefits zooxanthellate corals in general, but the species studied were SPS (Acropora and Porites come to mind). Do bear in mind that some of the biggest benefits of PNSB on corals are long-term; PNSB aren't just consumed as food, but are taken up endosymbiotically for their ability to supply the coral and zooxanthellae with nutrients.

I've spent a good amount of time testing these bacteria (PNS Probio) in planted FW tanks as well. I've recently isolated a PNSB from aquatic plants in a local natural environment; The tentative ID based on culture comparisons suggest Rhodomicrobium, but we'll hopefully nail that one down next week after getting it under a sufficiently powerful microscope to examine its morphology. Of course, that is all in the interest of developing a FW specific product.

 

[Snuggs]

Give me free shipping and I am in. Have both Reef and planted freshwater

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

my understanding of R palustris is that nitrogen fixation happens under low oxygen concentrations and uses other carbon sources namely carbon dioxide or plant derived carbons under aerobic conditions. While this species is fascinating for many reasons , ( my hubby is an environmental engineer) can you further explain its usefulness in an enclosed marine environment
That being said I find the product to have potential for my system I would love a better chemical understanding

Hi, Snuggs. You are correct. PNSB will not perform N-fixation (even in N-free media) under aerobic conditions. Moreover, they cannot perform photosynthesis (neither photoautotrophy nor photoheterotrophy) in the presence of oxygen. In a marine closed system, they will be most "in their element" just under the shallow upper layer of the substrate where some light penetrates but DO is low. In systems that contain zooxanthellate corals, they may also be taken up as an endosymbiont. The following is from this paper: "Although oxygenic photosynthesis renders most of the coral interior oxic during the day, coral microhabitats may host diazotrophic communities under oxygen-depleted conditions within the gastrodermis and microaerophilic regions in the gastrovascular cavities of coral polyps. Additionally, coral tissues compromised by contact with stagnant water or sediment and coral surfaces (mucus layer) and skeletons enable anaerobic forms of bacterial respiration and fermentation to occur within the holobiont." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5118425
Though I have not yet seen the following specifically investigated, I suspect that given (1) the strong probiotic activity of R. palustris, (2) it's ability to live in/on coral tissues, (3) it's preference for microaerobic environments and (4) the role of anoxia in exacerbating the conditions that promote coral infection, this microbe might help to prevent RTN.

Aside from being a nutritious food and symbiotic diazotroph, PNBS (certainly R. palustris included) are known for their ability to remove ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and many dissolved organics from aquacultural and industrial wastewater assets. But back to their use in conventional marine aquaria... They do live in aerobic conditions such as the water column (albeit as chemoheterotrophs) and therefore can be fed (i.e. carbon dosed) ethanol or acetate as with other such bacterioplankton in order to assimilate excess nitrate. Though it may be taken with a grain of salt (as there were no controls), a former colleague of mine who tested PNS Probio on her home system noted a sudden, appreciable drop in nitrate levels that coincided with the accelerated consumption of media in her biopellet reactor.

Your hubby might indeed be very familiar with this organism, as it is fairly well-studied for its potential in biological H2 production.

Thanks for joining in!

 

[Snuggs]

Hi, Snuggs. You are correct. PNSB will not perform N-fixation (even in N-free media) under aerobic conditions. Moreover, they cannot perform photosynthesis (neither photoautotrophy nor photoheterotrophy) in the presence of oxygen. In a marine closed system, they will be most "in their element" just under the shallow upper layer of the substrate where some light penetrates but DO is low. In systems that contain zooxanthellate corals, they may also be taken up as an endosymbiont. The following is from this paper: "Although oxygenic photosynthesis renders most of the coral interior oxic during the day, coral microhabitats may host diazotrophic communities under oxygen-depleted conditions within the gastrodermis and microaerophilic regions in the gastrovascular cavities of coral polyps. Additionally, coral tissues compromised by contact with stagnant water or sediment and coral surfaces (mucus layer) and skeletons enable anaerobic forms of bacterial respiration and fermentation to occur within the holobiont." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5118425
Though I have not yet seen the following specifically investigated, I suspect that given (1) the strong probiotic activity of R. palustris, (2) it's ability to live in/on coral tissues, (3) it's preference for microaerobic environments and (4) the role of anoxia in exacerbating the conditions that promote coral infection, this microbe might help to prevent RTN.

Aside from being a nutritious food and symbiotic diazotroph, PNBS (certainly R. palustris included) are known for their ability to remove ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and many dissolved organics from aquacultural and industrial wastewater assets. But back to their use in conventional marine aquaria... They do live in aerobic conditions such as the water column (albeit as chemoheterotrophs) and therefore can be fed (i.e. carbon dosed) ethanol or acetate as with other such bacterioplankton in order to assimilate excess nitrate. Though it may be taken with a grain of salt (as there were no controls), a former colleague of mine who tested PNS Probio on her home system noted a sudden, appreciable drop in nitrate levels that coincided with the accelerated consumption of media in her biopellet reactor.

Your hubby might indeed be very familiar with this organism, as it is fairly well-studied for its potential in biological H2 production.

Thanks for joining in!

Thank you for clarifying. I do not fully understand this organism. But find it may have potential to my system

 

[Aquanautical]

Thank you @Kenneth Wingerter! I suspected it was a member of the SAR11 clade and that is what drew me to it. Please keep us updated on your results on a final identity. I will pick some up with my next phyto purchase and give it a shot in my tank.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Thank you @Kenneth Wingerter! I suspected it was a member of the SAR11 clade and that is what drew me to it. Please keep us updated on your results on a final identity. I will pick some up with my next phyto purchase and give it a shot in my tank.

Sounds great! If you decide to pick it up via the hydrospace.store site let me know (we'll throw in a little something extra for you to try). BTW, these are alphaproteobacteria, but not of the Subclass Rickettsidae. Rather they are of the Caulobacteridae. Closely related, but different subclasses I believe. Thanks!

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Thank you @Kenneth Wingerter! I suspected it was a member of the SAR11 clade and that is what drew me to it. Please keep us updated on your results on a final identity. I will pick some up with my next phyto purchase and give it a shot in my tank.

Hi, Aquanautical! Did you ever get a chance to check out YelloSno or ProBio? If not, still interested? Both are back in stock and I'd love to hook you up.

I think you originally inquired about YelloSno which is flash pasteurized (a food), but you were most interested in the bacteria, so I'd also send you ProBio which is live (an inoculant).

(In advance, as a small business we are necessarily selective about give-aways, and so we will not be able to grant any other requests for free product on this thread. Thanks everybody and happy holidays!)

 

[Snuggs]

I tried the ProBio and was just beginning to see improvement in my my Dino outbreak. Unfortunately my family hated the smell so I stopped

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

I tried the ProBio and was just beginning to see improvement in my my Dino outbreak. Unfortunately my family hated the smell so I stopped

Hi Snuggs! Haha, I know, the old formula was a bit harsh on the nostrils, at least when you first put it in. I wish you could've made it past the death blow to the dino. Everything we sell is 100% guaranteed--whether purchased from us or from a distributor. I'm confident you'll find the new formula greatly improved, including odor. Actually, here's an article that addresses that directly: https://www.hydrospace.store/post/the-return-of-vastly-improved-pns-probio
Can I replace your old bottle with a new one? If the family wasn't too traumatized? Let me know!

 

[Mikefish87]

I just recieved both products today. looking forward to see how the next couple months play out on the reef.

 

[Snuggs]

I had used this product in the past but discontinued because of the odor. I have to say. That this new formula is GREATLY improved! Still in the early stages of use, but I am seeing increased polyp extension in my SPS . And a cleaner sand bed I have also used it in my freshwater planted tank . There it has really help breakdown. The plant debris and increased the growth of my plants

 

[Aquanaut WA]

Question is if the live products should be acclimated before adding. I will be dosing my second PNSPROBIO and Phyto since 30 days. I currently have a 18month mix reef —bare bottom 400g system due to high flows and eliminate detritus, thus keeping nutrients in suspension till consumed or skimmed. GHA is losing its grip and Pho4 still >1 and N03 <5. Cyano is increasing in refugium due to metabolic imbalances. I remain hopeful for SPS health as some colonies have been pailing then browning with ULNS.

 

[TheShrimpNibbler]

This looks very interesting! I’m going to start culturing and dosing phyto pretty soon I think, and I think that it would be cool to try dosing this too. If I ever try it, I think that I would go with the YelloSno since I would mostly be interested in it’s nutritional benefits to corals and other creatures. If anyone else has experiences with this, I would love to here them.
@Kenneth Wingerter , I’m glad to see someone like you reaching out and answering peoples questions on here. And on that note, I also have questions. Could dosing either of the products mentioned in this thread in excess cause a nutrient spike from dying bacteria and such? Also, what type of effect would YelloSno have on bivalves and copepod populations?