PNS Yellosno: Have you used it

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Question is if the live products should be acclimated before adding. I will be dosing my second PNSPROBIO and Phyto since 30 days. I currently have a 18month mix reef —bare bottom 400g system due to high flows and eliminate detritus, thus keeping nutrients in suspension till consumed or skimmed. GHA is losing its grip and Pho4 still >1 and N03 <5. Cyano is increasing in refugium due to metabolic imbalances. I remain hopeful for SPS health as some colonies have been pailing then browning with ULNS.

This bacterium is incredibly hardy and adaptable, and doesn't necessarily need to be acclimated. Just pour the doses right into an area of high flow in the main tank. It'll act as a probiotic if you put it directly into prepared foods. If you're feeding live zooplankton (especially day-old brine shrimp) you can gutload them with PNS ProBio along with the phyto in a gallon of tankwater w aeration 1 hr before using (pour whole thing into the tank). One more suggestion... I would soak at least one PNS ProBio dose into a loose aquarium sponge and just drop it into the sump (low-flow area); this should help to establish and maintain a large anaerobic population. As far as the phyto... that shouldn't need to be acclimated either! Watch the skimmer though and adjust if it appears to be removing either product.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

This looks very interesting! I’m going to start culturing and dosing phyto pretty soon I think, and I think that it would be cool to try dosing this too. If I ever try it, I think that I would go with the YelloSno since I would mostly be interested in it’s nutritional benefits to corals and other creatures. If anyone else has experiences with this, I would love to here them.
@Kenneth Wingerter , I’m glad to see someone like you reaching out and answering peoples questions on here. And on that note, I also have questions. Could dosing either of the products mentioned in this thread in excess cause a nutrient spike from dying bacteria and such? Also, what type of effect would YelloSno have on bivalves and copepod populations?

Adding any kind of food (any input of nitrogen or phosphorus) can potentially increase dissolved nutrient concentrations, and PNS YelloSno is no exception in that. The key issue here is to avoid overfeeding.

Unlike PNS YelloSno, PNS ProBio is a live product. These bacteria actually take up ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate from the water as they multiply, so they actually help to reduce nutrient levels.

Even beyond that important difference, YelloSno (a food) and ProBio (a bio-remediator) are two totally different products. YelloSno is a specialized marine invert food (especially for pods, soft corals and tube worms). While ProBio certainly is an amazing food (especially for bivalve mollusks, stony corals and sponges), it is most widely used for its ability to reduce both dissolved nutrients and dissolved organics. While YelloSno and ProBio both contain purple non-sulfur bacteria (R. palustris), they are quite different nutritionally.

Particularly for mixed tanks, I've always suggested feeding both, on alternating days!

 

[TheShrimpNibbler]

Adding any kind of food (any input of nitrogen or phosphorus) can potentially increase dissolved nutrient concentrations, and PNS YelloSno is no exception in that. The key issue here is to avoid overfeeding.

Unlike PNS YelloSno, PNS ProBio is a live product. These bacteria actually take up ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate from the water as they multiply, so they actually help to reduce nutrient levels.

Even beyond that important difference, YelloSno (a food) and ProBio (a bio-remediator) are two totally different products. YelloSno is a specialized marine invert food (especially for pods, soft corals and tube worms). While ProBio certainly is an amazing food (especially for bivalve mollusks, stony corals and sponges), it is most widely used for its ability to reduce both dissolved nutrients and dissolved organics. While YelloSno and ProBio both contain purple non-sulfur bacteria (R. palustris), they are quite different nutritionally.

Particularly for mixed tanks, I've always suggested feeding both, on alternating days!

Thank you so much for answering all of my questions and more. How long would a one bottle of either of these last on a 45 gallon tank? Also, I think that you’ve already stated that ProBio must be refrigerated, but what about YelloSno? What would happen if you mixed these two products together? Sorry for all the questions and thank you for your time.

 

[Woodyth]

Thank you so much for answering all of my questions and more. How long would a one bottle of either of these last on a 45 gallon tank? Also, I think that you’ve already stated that ProBio must be refrigerated, but what about YelloSno? What would happen if you mixed these two products together? Sorry for all the questions and thank you for your time.

Read my mind

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Thank you so much for answering all of my questions and more. How long would a one bottle of either of these last on a 45 gallon tank? Also, I think that you’ve already stated that ProBio must be refrigerated, but what about YelloSno? What would happen if you mixed these two products together? Sorry for all the questions and thank you for your time.

You're welcome, and sorry for this late reply, didn't see your additional questions earlier.

Both products could last approximately 1-2 months for a tank of that size, depending on the coral population and your feeding habits. As with any food, I'd watch coral response as well as any changes to water quality (especially phosphate concentration) and adjust doses as deemed best. Again, PNS YelloSno could potentially cause slight increases of nutrient levels (especially if grossly overfed); use of PNS ProBio will most likely reduce nutrient concentrations.

It is YelloSno (the food) that must be refrigerated, whereas ProBio (the live bacteria) can be stored at room temp for months.

A couple more distinctions... YelloSno simulates marine snow and is made with purple non-sulfur (PNS) bacteria, one of several types of nutritious bacteria known to associate with marine snow. It is flash pasteurized for the sake of preservation/stabilization, so it is not a live product. ProBio, on the other hand, is a live and highly concentrated inoculant--this one also works as a food (albeit for different filter-feeders) but most importantly helps to maintain good water quality.

I highly recommend using both products. My suggestion is to alternate between each daily.

 

[TheShrimpNibbler]

You're welcome, and sorry for this late reply, didn't see your additional questions earlier.

Both products could last approximately 1-2 months for a tank of that size, depending on the coral population and your feeding habits. As with any food, I'd watch coral response as well as any changes to water quality (especially phosphate concentration) and adjust doses as deemed best. Again, PNS YelloSno could potentially cause slight increases of nutrient levels (especially if grossly overfed); use of PNS ProBio will most likely reduce nutrient concentrations.

It is YelloSno (the food) that must be refrigerated, whereas ProBio (the live bacteria) can be stored at room temp for months.

A couple more distinctions... YelloSno simulates marine snow and is made with purple non-sulfur (PNS) bacteria, one of several types of nutritious bacteria known to associate with marine snow. It is flash pasteurized for the sake of preservation/stabilization, so it is not a live product. ProBio, on the other hand, is a live and highly concentrated inoculant--this one also works as a food (albeit for different filter-feeders) but most importantly helps to maintain good water quality.

I highly recommend using both products. My suggestion is to alternate between each daily.

Thank you very much for the help!

 

[aerofly0610]

@Kenneth Wingerter can PNSB probio be used in conjunction with other bac products to start up a new tank? Or do you only recommend using it in an established tank with livestock?

 

[Baxter1234]

@Kenneth Wingerter

I came across your product online and I subsequently found this thread after doing some researching. I plan on setting up a reef aquarium in the future at which point I think I will strongly consider using these products. I know this forum is focused on reef aquariums but I saw you mentioned that this product has been tested, to some extent, in freshwater aquariums?

I currently keep a 125 gallon african cichlid tank and I was wondering if I could utilize ProBio to help lower nitrate levels and reduce the frequency/size of water changes? I'm not sure how familiar you are will african cichlids but it is common practice to "overstock" in an effort to reduce aggression. Unfortunately, this means more waster and ultimately more/larger water changes. It is not uncommon for me to do 75% or more water changes weekly to keep nitrate levels low! Given the setup of the stand, I don't have room for a sump so I run 2 large canister filters on the aquarium which certainly doesn't help keep nitrate levels low. Please note that I also don't keep plants in the aquarium as african cichlids tend to eat/uproot them.

In any case, do you think an african cichlid (or another other non-planted freshwater tank for that matter) aquarium could benefit from ProBio in an effort to reduce nitrate levels? If so, how would you recommend implementing ProBio in such an aquarium? I know I speak for many when I say that a product like this could be very intriguing for african cichlid keepers.

Look forwarding to hearing from you. Thanks.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hi, yes, absolutely PNS ProBio can be used to "cycle" and condition a new system. We've researched this species intensively for 3-4 years and found no evidence of adverse interaction with any "good" bacteria. In fact, Rhodopseudomonas palustris is well-known to work synergistically with certain prominent beneficial/probiotic bacteria (e.g. Bacillus). There are lots of reasons for this but it all comes down to one thing; R. palustris is a pioneer species that facilitates what ecologists term secondary invasion.

For example, this bacterium is used by horticulturists/farmers to rebuild crapped out soil, as it makes the environment more hospitable for other beneficial microbes. Same thing in aquaria. For one, in the total absence of organic matter, it can fix carbon dioxide to synthesize biomass. It consumes ammonia and nitrite (and because this is an assimilatory process, there is no nitrate generated as a byproduct). Yet, because it prefers anaerobic areas, it does not compete with the types of nitrifying bacteria you'd be trying to establish in your biofilter which is by design highly aerobic (this is confirmed by Tim Hovanec of Dr. Tim's Aquatics). Furthermore, because R. palustris is a tough chemoheterotroph and organoheterotroph, it competes with the "bad" heterotrophs THAT DO compete with your nitrifiers.

Another cool thing about R. palustris is that it is a nitrate sponge (again, an assimilator), and removes nitrate faster than typical denitrifiers, so it helps to prevent the huge nitrate build-ups (and subsequent algal blooms) that plaque many new systems. Finally, it aggressively fights undesirable heterotrophic facultative anaerobes like Vibrio that might bloom in young systems (particularly those with heavy organic loads such as those that contain significant die-off in live rock/sand).

All this being said, it's also a great bacteria for established systems, principally for continuous nitrate/phosphate control as well as sludge degradation. Plus, it's a proven probiotic that is especially beneficial to zooxanthellate corals. One could argue that because this species is a regular member of healthy natural coral reef microbial communities, it SHOULD be included in all established reef aquaria.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hi, Baxter. Definitely familiar with Rift Lake systems (used to mail order specimens from Ned Bower back in the late 80's!) and also the issues related to overstocking, including having to feed the fish generously. R. palustris works just as well in freshwater at removing nitrate and I'd recommend it! Also, PNS ProBio could help to reduce the poop build-up you might see in a heavily stocked/fed African tank.

 

[aerofly0610]

@Kenneth Wingerter Awesome! Thanks for the information. I went ahead and placed an order for ProBio.

 

[Baxter1234]

Hi, Baxter. Definitely familiar with Rift Lake systems (used to mail order specimens from Ned Bower back in the late 80's!) and also the issues related to overstocking, including having to feed the fish generously. R. palustris works just as well in freshwater at removing nitrate and I'd recommend it! Also, PNS ProBio could help to reduce the poop build-up you might see in a heavily stocked/fed African tank.

Excellent! Are there any side effects to using ProBio on a freshwater aquarium? Will it require a protein skimmer or any other equipment beyond the canister filters that I currently use? Thanks.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

No unwanted side effects whatsoever! R. palustris has been extensively used in aquaculture (mainly fish and shrimp farms), especially in Asia, for 30-40 years now and is very, very well studied (try a couple Google searches with the words "Rhodopseudomonas palustris" and "aquarium" or "aquaculture"). We've also tested our product on experimental systems (both FW and SW) for a couple years (including massive overdoses) with no apparent harm at all. This bacterium is naturally occurring in many (if not most) freshwater, marine and soil habitats. It never "goes pathogenic" and doesn't generate any noxious substances such as hydrogen sulfide or methane. No protein skimmer required; sufficient export should occur with normal water changes, especially if you gravel vac. Super safe and easy to use!

 

[wleikeini]

Hi, this is Kenneth Wingerter. I'm the owner of the company that makes this product. It would be my pleasure to answer any questions you may have, even if I joined in a bit late.

Its really awesome to know this.

 

[aerofly0610]

@Kenneth Wingerter Awesome! Thanks for the information. I went ahead and placed an order for ProBio.

So the smell isn’t that bad actually. It’s less offensive than the diaper genie in the nursery.

 

[wleikeini]

So the smell isn’t that bad actually. It’s less offensive than the diaper genie in the nursery.

I have also ordered one.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

By the way, just saw that SaltFishTV recently filmed an unboxing of the PNS products from an AlgaeBarn order (looks like the package took a ferocious beating). They provide a code for 15% off, for anyone that might be interested.
unboxing link

 

[PerplexyHexy]

Whats PNS stand for?

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Whats PNS stand for?

Hi, Perplexy. PNS is short for "purple non-sulfur." The live bacteria in this product (Rhodopseudomonas palustris) are purple non-sulfur bacteria, which is often shortened to PNSB. The purple non-sulfurs got their name after the purple sulfur bacteria (PSB) were already named. The PNSBs are distinguished from the PSBs mainly in that they usually can tolerate aerobic environments and don't rely on sulfur (e.g. hydrogen sulfide) nearly as much for their metabolism. There are some other small differences, but those are the big ones as far as an aquarist would be concerned! more here...

 

[Baxter1234]

No unwanted side effects whatsoever! R. palustris has been extensively used in aquaculture (mainly fish and shrimp farms), especially in Asia, for 30-40 years now and is very, very well studied (try a couple Google searches with the words "Rhodopseudomonas palustris" and "aquarium" or "aquaculture"). We've also tested our product on experimental systems (both FW and SW) for a couple years (including massive overdoses) with no apparent harm at all. This bacterium is naturally occurring in many (if not most) freshwater, marine and soil habitats. It never "goes pathogenic" and doesn't generate any noxious substances such as hydrogen sulfide or methane. No protein skimmer required; sufficient export should occur with normal water changes, especially if you gravel vac. Super safe and easy to use!

Hi Ken,

Just wanted to let you know that I purchased this product about three weeks ago. I dosed two of my tanks following the instructions on the label. Within a week or so I noticed that both tanks had a slight ammonia followed by a nitrite spike. I made no other changes (e.g. added new fish) to either tank so I'm unsure what happened. Unfortunately, I lost two of my fish. However, I will note that my nitrate levels have remained quite low. I'm not sure if others that have used the product have experienced this as well so I wanted to provide you with some feedback.