Po4 problems.

Roberto CRC · Mar 14, 2016

Hi friends,

I have a problem with Po4 in my tank. I use NoPox Red Sea and have managed to control the No3, however Po4 has not been the same.

Last Friday I measured last time and are at 0.36 ppm according to the Red Sea test, which is a very high value.

Currently there have RO DI system so use tap water that have no parameter data you have, it is that buying a RO DI can achieve the Po4 go down?

Possibly I recommend using a reactor GFO, but I have the problem that I have no space to use one and as directed by NoPox says that you can not use other media such as resins together with NoPox.

My sand has diatom, not much but it's annoying to see the brown sand in parts.

What do I recommend?

My system is 150 gls, has 1 year and 2 months of working, I have 2 tangs, 1 fox face, 1 Cardinal bangay and 2 clowns, feed with nori 2 times a day, spectrum A + 2 times a day and every 2 days frozen brine shrimp.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 14, 2016

Organic carbon dosing is typically overbalanced to more nitrate removal than phosphate (for well understood technical reasons), so nitrate can often be controlled adequately, but phosphate often may not.

That is why people often use GFO or other phosphate binders along with organic carbon dosing, and some effectively dose more nitrate, either directly, or by adding amino acids (which add a lot of nitrogen).

If you cannot use a reactor, perhaps you could fit a mesh bag of aluminum oxide, such as Seachem Phosguard or Kent Phosphate Sponge. Or you could consider dosing lanthanum.

Roberto CRC · Mar 14, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Organic carbon dosing is typically overbalanced to more nitrate removal than phosphate (for well understood technical reasons), so nitrate can often be controlled adequately, but phosphate often may not.

That is why people often use GFO or other phosphate binders along with organic carbon dosing, and some effectively dose more nitrate, either directly, or by adding amino acids (which add a lot of nitrogen).

If you cannot use a reactor, perhaps you could fit a mesh bag of aluminum oxide, such as Seachem Phosguard or Kent Phosphate Sponge. Or you could consider dosing lanthanum.

Thanks Randy, what is lanthanum? I had never heard mention.

The RO DI can help me with something?

Bunnee911 · Mar 14, 2016

Your tap water may have phosphate in it. Mine does. Ro/di is very important.

Roberto CRC · Mar 14, 2016

Bunnee911 said:
Your tap water may have phosphate in it. Mine does. Ro/di is very important.

Ok perfect, thaks a lot.

Roberto CRC · Mar 14, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Organic carbon dosing is typically overbalanced to more nitrate removal than phosphate (for well understood technical reasons), so nitrate can often be controlled adequately, but phosphate often may not.

That is why people often use GFO or other phosphate binders along with organic carbon dosing, and some effectively dose more nitrate, either directly, or by adding amino acids (which add a lot of nitrogen).

If you cannot use a reactor, perhaps you could fit a mesh bag of aluminum oxide, such as Seachem Phosguard or Kent Phosphate Sponge. Or you could consider dosing lanthanum.

I have 2 questions before buying a product.

It is by Kent Phospate Sponge inclined, the recommendations says using 800 micron mesh, it must be strictly that or may be 200 micron?

When I use the Sponge Phospate Kent, I must stop using Nopox or I still use normally?

Roberto CRC · Mar 14, 2016

Ah and another question, i maybe use pantyhose woman?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 14, 2016

Roberto CRC said:
Thanks Randy, what is lanthanum? I had never heard mention.

The RO DI can help me with something?

Lanthanum is a metal added to seawater to precipitate phosphate (and it also preciptiates carbonate, potentially reducing alkalinity):

Phosphate In The Reef Aquarium
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/?p=3184

from it:

Soluble Metals to Bind Phosphate

There are several approaches that add soluble metals to bind and precipitate phosphate. The most popular involves adding lanthanum, which precipitates as lanthanum phosphate and/or lanthanum carbonate (which itself may contain some lanthanum phosphate). The lanthanum approach is widely used in the pool industry to reduce phosphate, and seems to often work well in aquaria. It is also very inexpensive, using products such as Seaklear (make sure it is a pure lanthanum version as mixtures with other metals also exist). Note that this method reduces alkalinity, as removing carbonate and phosphate as a lanthanum precipitate will reduce alkalinity.

One way to use it is to drip is slowly just upstream of a particulate filter to catch and remove a substantial amount of the precipitate that is formed. One drawback to the lanthanum approach is that much of the precipitated material may escape capture and simply settle out in the system somewhere. That may not be an issue, but many aquarists do not prefer to accumulate such material. A second concern is that some people have observed problematic reactions from aquarium inhabitants. While there are not a lot of such stories, it is enough for many aquarists to look for other options.

However, due to its low cost, this approach is especially well suited to outside of the tank operations, such as the removal of excess phosphate from phosphate-contaminated calcium carbonate rock that is later to be added to a reef aquarium.

Soluble iron has also been used in this way, but not nearly so often as lanthanum.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 14, 2016

Roberto CRC said:
I have 2 questions before buying a product.

It is by Kent Phospate Sponge inclined, the recommendations says using 800 micron mesh, it must be strictly that or may be 200 micron?

When I use the Sponge Phospate Kent, I must stop using Nopox or I still use normally?

There's no reason that I know of to alter organic carbon dosing when using a phosphate binding solid like GFO or aluminum oxide. Just make sure phosphate does not get too low

The larger mesh bag will allow more flow.

Nylon pantyhose may work (I've not tried), but the mesh is pretty fine.

Roberto CRC · Mar 14, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
There's no reason that I know of to alter organic carbon dosing when using a phosphate binding solid like GFO or aluminum oxide. Just make sure phosphate does not get too low

The larger mesh bag will allow more flow.

Nylon pantyhose may work (I've not tried), but the mesh is pretty fine.

Ok perfect Randy, thank you very much for the answers.

I'll try buying that product from Kent, one that will touch me wait about 15 days to receive it since I live in Costa Rica.

I'll be keeping abreast of how it goes with this.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 14, 2016

Roberto CRC said:
Ok perfect Randy, thank you very much for the answers.

I'll try buying that product from Kent, one that will touch me wait about 15 days to receive it since I live in Costa Rica.

I'll be keeping abreast of how it goes with this.

Sounds good.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

Roberto CRC · Mar 16, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Sounds good.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

Hi Randy, was reviewing the product review you recommended "Kent Phosphate Sponge" but I have read that some indicate that soft corals suffer with this type of product as I aditan aluminum hydroxide (or so), this is true?

I have some extra precaution to what the manufacturer recommends respect to time of use in the aquarium?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 16, 2016

Roberto CRC said:
Hi Randy, was reviewing the product review you recommended "Kent Phosphate Sponge" but I have read that some indicate that soft corals suffer with this type of product as I aditan aluminum hydroxide (or so), this is true?

I have some extra precaution to what the manufacturer recommends respect to time of use in the aquarium?

Release of aluminum can cause irritation of soft corals, and that is why I prefer GFO, but that is not typically observed.

If you see such a response, I'd stop using it, but many people do use it without issues.

Roberto CRC · Mar 16, 2016

Ok, I sent him to bring, only I have to wait about 10 days to have it in my house.

I will use it and watch as everything evolves.

Paul Ahrens · Mar 17, 2016

My no3 is at 0 but my po4 is at 2 . Tank is is a month old using a mix of dry and live rock. I only feed once a day and only enough that the fish will eat and spot feed my Nems torch and hammer. And use oyster feast for feather duster and poly . It's a all in one 20gl tank with skimmer and a kessil a160we light. Thanks in advance

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 17, 2016

Roberto CRC said:
Ok, I sent him to bring, only I have to wait about 10 days to have it in my house.

I will use it and watch as everything evolves.

OK, let us know what happens!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Mar 17, 2016

Paul Ahrens said:
My no3 is at 0 but my po4 is at 2 . Tank is is a month old using a mix of dry and live rock. I only feed once a day and only enough that the fish will eat and spot feed my Nems torch and hammer. And use oyster feast for feather duster and poly . It's a all in one 20gl tank with skimmer and a kessil a160we light. Thanks in advance

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Are you using tap water?

Roberto CRC · Mar 17, 2016

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Are you using tap water?

I think you are a candidate to also use Kent Marine Sponge or put to work GFO reactor. The problem is that a reactor is somewhat uncomfortable and if you have sump, use it on the display will take up much space having pump reactor.

In a nano it is even more important to control these parameters since a peak can be very damaging and it would be advisable to do water changes every week.

However, as you asked Randy, you use tap water? or you have Ro Di. and reading made fresh water parameters you use to fill and water changes?

Roberto CRC · Mar 17, 2016

Yesterday I got tap water and had a reading of 0.16ppm of phosphate.

But I have a question about it. Use the test to measure Red Sea that clearly is made for saltwater. Affects you use for fresh water, you will have a misreading?