Poll: At a gridlock for picking first system. Help me reason each option!

[ScottsTot]

I’ve been reading an endless amount of material for a few weeks in order to pick a fitting first setup. Thanks to those who have spent the time to answer my questions and give me advice.

My goal is to create a beautiful, self-sustaining system that I can simply enjoy. There are a few things I’d like to achieve.

1) Ease of maintenance I am going back to school soon (hopefully) so there may times I cannot give 100% attention during finals and stuff. I want to minimize required maintenance time so I can let the tank be and not have it crash when I can't be 100% attentive. In other words, if a 40 gallon tank takes 2 hours longer to care for than a 20 gallon tank each week, I will likely have to eliminate the larger systems I'm considering.

2) Easy to move. I live in a city with an absurd rent - NYC. My partner and I are young so we move from time to time - let's say every 2 years or so. Smaller = Easier to move. I want to eliminate anything that will be a big pain to move. The Reefer 250 is the largest system I have listed but isn't too bad according to those who've chimed in.

3) Cost. No explanation needed Had a $2500 budget but there is wiggle room since I started out at a $1500 budget lol.

4) Aesthetics. Wife is awesome as she 100% supports this and enjoys it as well. All she cares about is no water damage that could evict us and making the apartment look pretty and clean.


I have time to pick my setup but want to somewhat decide which direction to go so I can begin gathering some used equipment for cheap as opportunities arise. I’ve done a cost analysis for over 50 setups, and I’ve narrowed down my choices to the following. I’m at a gridlock so I thought I would put this up to a poll to see what others would do. Reefer 170 came up ahead on another forum but I added some more to the list and can't decide lol.

So, what system would you pick and why if you were me? If you have one of these systems, do you recommend it and how much time do you spend on maintenance?




· 20 Gallon Long with HOB Filter

o Price: $1400

o Pros: Economical. Simple setup. Nice dimensions.

o Cons: Small volume. Ugly.​

o TLDR: This is my least favorite setup for a variety of reasons (small, ugly, limited stocking, etc.). However, it is cheap. 90% of the estimated price is for reusable equipment (ATO, test kits, lights, etc.). I will have a chance to test the waters and if I upgrade, the losses won’t be great since I have the tank, HOB, and stand already. However, I have a feeling I will upgrade.​

· Red Sea Reefer 170

o Price: $2600

o Pros: Moderate volume. Beautiful. Simple setup. Sump.

o Cons: Expensive. Cube dimension.

o TLDR: This setup is beautiful and no one seems disappointed. The cube is a downer for me but not a big deal. The size is decent. I will be happy with this. However, there is no room for equipment in the stand, meaning I need a custom ATO reservoir or have a cabinet next to the stand to store everything. If getting custom equipment, the Red Sea Reefer 250 is actually only $85 more since the 250 does not require custom equipment due to ample stand space. If I have equipment next to the stand, I might as well go for the 250 since it’ll end up taking the same amount of space. (Only difference between the systems is the 12 extra inches of length). But, of course, the 250 is pricier.​

· Red Sea Max E-170

o Price: $2500

o Pros: Moderate volume. Beautiful. Simple setup.

o Cons: Expensive. Cube dimension. No sump.

o TLDR: The only difference between this and the Red Sea Reefer 170 is the lack of a sump. However, I can put equipment in the stand.​

· Red Sea Reefer 250

o Price:

o Pros: Large volume. Beautiful. Simple setup. Nice dimension. Sump.

o Cons: Expensive.

o TLDR: My favorite. I love the 40B dimensions and this provides a similar dimension and looks 100x better. The price is high but I won’t have to upgrade for years (or ever). The size is intimidating though since I’ve never kept a tank over 22 gallons. If maintenance is a lot more time consuming, than a small setup like the 170, I can’t keep this. However, due to the size, larger stocking options, aesthetics, and simple setup, I like this most.​

· 40 Gallon Breeder with 20 Gallon Long Sump

o Price: $2800

o Pros: Large volume. Nice dimension. Sump.

o Cons: Expensive. Ugly. Laborious setup.

o TLDR: Everything about this is great except the aesthetics. This and the 250 are my favorite if aesthetics didn’t matter at all. The cost isn’t too bad but it’s pretty ugly and I don’t know if I can move past it.​

· Nuvo 40

o Price: $2000

o Pros: Economical. Moderate volume.

o Cons: Beautiful tank but DIY stand. Laborious setup. Awkward dimension. No sump.

o TLDR: This is cheap for how much water I get. The dimensions are awkward though and smaller than you think (30 gallons really). I need to build my own stand which isn’t bad but a hassle.​

· Nuvo 25

o Price: $1900

o Pros: Economical. Nice dimensions.

o Cons: Small volume. Beautiful tank but DIY stand. Laborious setup. No sump.

o TLDR: This is the Nuvo 25. It’s just taller. If the Nuvo 40 is easier to maintain and takes less time, Nuvo 25 is out the door.​

· Nuvo 50

o Price: $2500

o Pros: Large volume. Nice dimensions.

o Cons: Expensive. Beautiful tank but DIY stand. Laborious setup. No sump.

o TLDR: The dimensions are great but there is no sump. Sump seems like a necessity for a tank this big. I need to build my own stand though and the Reefer 170 is the same price, although the Reefer is smaller.​

· Waterbox 50 Cube

o Price: $2300

o Pros: Large volume.

o Cons: Expensive. Beautiful tank but DIY stand. Laborious setup. Cube dimension. No sump.

o TLDR: Same thing as the Nuvo 50 except the dimensions aren’t great. It’s also slightly cheaper.​

· Would you make another recommendation?

o Why?​

 

[KJAG]

Regardless of model, I would run a sump, period. I’m not familiar with mass produced tanks in general, but I noticed one of your priorities is a flood failsafe measure. So more important than the tank itself is how it’s drilled/ plumbed. If it were me I would pick the one that suits you(with a sump), make sure the sump can handle backflow from the lines without overflowing the skimmer chamber/ or worse your sump,( siphon breaks, returns submerged just under the display waterline) and that you factor in an emergency drain. At the very least a Herbie, best case being a Bean overflow. You’re asking for a flood if you don’t have an emergency drain(if you have a sump)

 

[NeedMoreReef]

Good luck with saltwater. its the greatest hobby! your remind me of myself when I was younger.

I'm not sure you provided the most important bit of information we need to know to help you. What animals are you interested in keeping?

 

[Flippers4pups]

Just starting out, I'd go with the red Sea 250.

More water volume, more stable.

Of course, has everything to do with your preference and your finances.

 

[Jesterrace]

I'm not sure where you got your figures from on the 20 long, but I could show you how to build a sumpless model for $362-$415. Honestly on a tank that size a sump is a needless cost. The larger the tank the more options for fish and the more stable the water perameters. I would say you need to spend some time researching the kind of fish you want to keep and then go from there.

 

[Sarah24!]

So as I’m fairly young also, (unless 25 is old now), but money always seem to be an issue. I didn’t buy my tank, stand or anything new tank wise. I bought my 240 gallon tank that was 7 months old w the stand and sump for 300 dollars at my local fish store used.

I then bought the dual current orbit marine pros 72 inch along with four of the current 2100 gph wave makers and two of the current dc 3500 gallon return pumps. That was close to 1200 roughly for all the equipment. I then bought an eshopps s300 skimmer which was just over 300.

Needless to say sometimes buying a used tank is a better way to go when you have little money. My tank has been doing amazing and the current products are just fantastic. It doesn’t matter what size tank you have, moving any reef tank is going to be tasking. In addition the larger the tank the more stable it is. I would honestly look on forums and craigslist just to see what you can find. If you can save 500 or more then that’s awesome. I wish you and your wife luck, also another tid bit is if you rent in New York, check and see if they will even allow fish tanks etc. Some places I was going to live, only allowed a 10 gallon tank and had to be fresh water only. But either way good luck it’s such an amazing hobby.

 

[Jesterrace]

So as I’m fairly young also, (unless 25 is old now), but money always seem to be an issue. I didn’t buy my tank, stand or anything new tank wise. I bought my 240 gallon tank that was 7 months old w the stand and sump for 300 dollars at my local fish store used.

I then bought the dual current orbit marine pros 72 inch along with four of the current 2100 gph wave makers and two of the current dc 3500 gallon return pumps. That was close to 1200 roughly for all the equipment. I then bought an eshopps s300 skimmer which was just over 300.

Needless to say sometimes buying a used tank is a better way to go when you have little money. My tank has been doing amazing and the current products are just fantastic. It doesn’t matter what size tank you have, moving any reef tank is going to be tasking. In addition the larger the tank the more stable it is. I would honestly look on forums and craigslist just to see what you can find. If you can save 500 or more then that’s awesome. I wish you and your wife luck, also another tid bit is if you rent in New York, check and see if they will even allow fish tanks etc. Some places I was going to live, only allowed a 10 gallon tank and had to be fresh water only. But either way good luck it’s such an amazing hobby.

No arguments there, unfortunately the tank I had was scratched up, so I had to return it and buy a new one, but I got my stand, sump (complete with return pump, skimmer and virtually all the plumbing) for $250. I actually spent about $100 less on my 90 gallon than I did on my 36 gallon because of that fact.

 

[ScottsTot]

Regardless of model, I would run a sump, period. I’m not familiar with mass produced tanks in general, but I noticed one of your priorities is a flood failsafe measure. So more important than the tank itself is how it’s drilled/ plumbed. If it were me I would pick the one that suits you(with a sump), make sure the sump can handle backflow from the lines without overflowing the skimmer chamber/ or worse your sump,( siphon breaks, returns submerged just under the display waterline) and that you factor in an emergency drain. At the very least a Herbie, best case being a Bean overflow. You’re asking for a flood if you don’t have an emergency drain(if you have a sump)

The Red Sea tanks come with a herbie overflow and if I were to drill and plumb something myself, I would do a Herbie as well. There are a lot of blue prints for the 40 Gallon + 20 Gallon setup.

 

[ScottsTot]

Good luck with saltwater. its the greatest hobby! your remind me of myself when I was younger.

I'm not sure you provided the most important bit of information we need to know to help you. What animals are you interested in keeping?

Haven't decided yet but just the usual.

Not all but some of the ones I like are:
2 clowns
Maybe a shrimp and goby pair
Dwarf angel like a flame
Algae blenny
Clown goby
Cardinals
Royal Gramma
Hawkfish

For corals, zoas are my favorite but anything easy. I also find most beautiful. I also like acans and euphyllia.

I'm not too picky about the fish and corals. I'm at the stage where I find all of the common ones beautiful.

 

[ScottsTot]

I'm not sure where you got your figures from on the 20 long, but I could show you how to build a sumpless model for $362-$415. Honestly on a tank that size a sump is a needless cost. The larger the tank the more options for fish and the more stable the water perameters. I would say you need to spend some time researching the kind of fish you want to keep and then go from there.

The tank itself is very cheap. I actually have a 20 gallon tank with an Aquaclear HOB filter I would use from a freshwater setup. Wouldn't use a sump for this size. I should've been clear. The numbers I came up include everything I can think of.

So, for rough estimates (although I calculated with 10% off since I'll wait for sales), here are a few things I off the top of my head

$180 for Tunze ATO (adament about getting this one since this seems safest against water spills)
$300 for lights (want to get nice ones so I don't have upgrade losses if I upgrade)
$200 for BRS RODI with TDS meter (no car so do not want to go back and forth with gallons of water on the subway lol)
$65 for salt
$30 Surge protector on Amazon with switches
etc.

There are rocks, sand, powerheads, buckets, etc etc. I tried to think of every single thing I can think of even if it cost $3 since they all add up.

 

[ScottsTot]

So as I’m fairly young also, (unless 25 is old now), but money always seem to be an issue. I didn’t buy my tank, stand or anything new tank wise. I bought my 240 gallon tank that was 7 months old w the stand and sump for 300 dollars at my local fish store used.

I then bought the dual current orbit marine pros 72 inch along with four of the current 2100 gph wave makers and two of the current dc 3500 gallon return pumps. That was close to 1200 roughly for all the equipment. I then bought an eshopps s300 skimmer which was just over 300.

Needless to say sometimes buying a used tank is a better way to go when you have little money. My tank has been doing amazing and the current products are just fantastic. It doesn’t matter what size tank you have, moving any reef tank is going to be tasking. In addition the larger the tank the more stable it is. I would honestly look on forums and craigslist just to see what you can find. If you can save 500 or more then that’s awesome. I wish you and your wife luck, also another tid bit is if you rent in New York, check and see if they will even allow fish tanks etc. Some places I was going to live, only allowed a 10 gallon tank and had to be fresh water only. But either way good luck it’s such an amazing hobby.

25 here as well I'm searching on the forums and craigslist daily to see if I can pick something up. Some come up here and there but it's important that the setup looks nice. Often times, it's scratched up, not taken care of, etc. and I can piece something similar for just $50 to $100 more and have piece of mind that everything is in good condition. If I can pick up something where I can save a few hundred bucks, that'll be a diff story.

Yea I'm concerned about the restrictions in apartments too but I asked a handful of shops around the area and they claim most of their customers live in NYC apartments. I'm sure there are soem places where you can't keep more than 5 gallons but I think there are enough places that'll allow a tank.

 

[count krunk]

$2800 for a 40 breeder setup?? you could do it well for half that easily. Check this out https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RZwaJs_jzJvWmWqcC_s7yiHOYolcuwSY0qvlA0clAMs/edit?usp=sharing

 

[andrewkw]

If I were you I'd probably get the 170 but seriously consider the 250 depending on just how many of those fish you want. If you got the 250 your entire list above should be fine. You could certainly do the 40g breeder setup cheaper but this will get you everything in one box.

By getting one of the red sea reefer you get the sump, a show quality stand ect. Unless you have some friends who can either build you a nice stand or give you space to build it a pre bought is probably a good idea in your case. It will also keep your wife and yourself happy. My only concern in recommending you the 250 is are you sure you're always going to have space for it since you mention frequent moves. That said 2 years is probably long enough to go with it and worst case you could downgrade if you had no choice in 2 years. The red sea plumbing will be easy enough for a newbie and still allow you to learn how a sump and everything else works. I'm not saying it's hard to glue and cut pipe but you probably don't want to be going back and forth on the subway with pvc ect.

 

[Sarah24!]

Here are some pictures of my tank that is just about six months old. Any suggestions would be amazing. After looking I have less than 2100 for my entire setup. Of course that doesn’t include fish and coral now, but initial setup with rock sand water etc.

 

[ScottsTot]

$2800 for a 40 breeder setup?? you could do it well for half that easily. Check this out https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RZwaJs_jzJvWmWqcC_s7yiHOYolcuwSY0qvlA0clAMs/edit?usp=sharing

Oh crap. Typo. 2800 was for the Reefer 250. The 40B setup is about $2300. The cost in my area is different. For example, I called my local Petco and the 40B is $60 not $30. There are a few things that I'm set on having such as sand and a skimmer. Also need a stand that is decent looking and that'll cost more then $50 for me.

 

[Matthew Frost]

My .02:

The most important things you've mentioned, your budget and the fact that you relocate relatively regularly. Because this is a setup that is going to have to be something easy to move I would go with a cube and keep it at 40 gallons or less for the DT. Cubes can be gorgeous and are going to be easier to maintain. Red Sea makes some beautiful set ups but you can also surf the classifieds for a lot of similar set ups and mimic. As far as budget, doing a cube that is less than 2' in LWH means lighting is cheaper and most of your equipment is going to be smaller/more affordable/easier to maintain.

 

[JoshH]

Ever looked at the Nuvo black series? Pretty much every tank size they make you can get in a non AIO version for a decent price, add an overflow (Ghost, synergy, modular marine ETC) and you can put whatever sump you wish under it. They do make stands for most sizes which look great and are at a good height but are a little slim for sump unless you get the lagoon style. Oh and FWIW you can take any AIO and add a sump If you wish, I did it with my RSM C130 and love it.

 

[ScottsTot]

Ever looked at the Nuvo black series? Pretty much every tank size they make you can get in a non AIO version for a decent price, add an overflow (Ghost, synergy, modular marine ETC) and you can put whatever sump you wish under it. They do make stands for most sizes which look great and are at a good height but are a little slim for sump unless you get the lagoon style. Oh and FWIW you can take any AIO and add a sump If you wish, I did it with my RSM C130 and love it.

Yup. I priced out each Nuvo Black setup with a sump. After piecing everything out (from the holesaw, sump, silicone, baffles, and so on), the Reefer 170 (which has the same dimensions) comes out only $200 more. For me, the extra $200 is worth the labor costs, time to build, and the final product.

 

[Jesterrace]

The tank itself is very cheap. I actually have a 20 gallon tank with an Aquaclear HOB filter I would use from a freshwater setup. Wouldn't use a sump for this size. I should've been clear. The numbers I came up include everything I can think of.

So, for rough estimates (although I calculated with 10% off since I'll wait for sales), here are a few things I off the top of my head

$180 for Tunze ATO (adament about getting this one since this seems safest against water spills)
$300 for lights (want to get nice ones so I don't have upgrade losses if I upgrade)
$200 for BRS RODI with TDS meter (no car so do not want to go back and forth with gallons of water on the subway lol)
$65 for salt
$30 Surge protector on Amazon with switches
etc.

There are rocks, sand, powerheads, buckets, etc etc. I tried to think of every single thing I can think of even if it cost $3 since they all add up.

You could probably get away with a $200 light on a 20 long (ie AI Prime HD). As for ATO? People here will disagree with me but I don't use one. Why? I can monitor the water levels in my tank to know when it needs a top off and then add what is needed, on the other hand with an ATO all it takes is a stuck float valve and it runs forever thereby overflowing in a bad way on a smaller tank or significantly decreasing your salinity on a larger tank. My LFS is currently in the process of moving for this very reason (ie flooded neighbors because the float valve got stuck).

 

[CJS80]

Also need a stand that is decent looking and that'll cost more then $50 for me.

You could go with a Marineland cube. They are about $300 new, already drilled with overflow, and then you can pick what ever stand you desire that will hold it. You could get a Somatic 60 sump, which comes with protein skimmer for a little over $250. You could also get the ATO ad on box cheap which will save a lot of money/risk of overflow verses an electrical pump ATO. I know it isn't the best out there but it is a good way to get your "feet wet" in the hobby before you sink a ton of money and have something go wrong which will drive you away.