POLL: when do you consider a tank mature?

[MnFish1]

Most coral farms aren't actually growing the coral they're just letting it pass through and many use NSW raceways.

By coral farm - I meant the firms that are fragging and growing coral. Im not aware of the need for live rock in those systems and those located inland are not NSW. Only point was live rock is not a requirement for growing coral.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

How do coral farms grow thousands of corals in tanks without sponges or live rock?

Mature water and usually live rock. You should check out American industrial coral farm methods. Most indo farms are in the ocean.

Or it could work just fine

Fish can't scream. Lol.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

By coral farm - I meant the firms that are fragging and growing coral. Im not aware of the need for live rock in those systems and those located inland are not NSW. Only point was live rock is not a requirement for growing coral.

What farm specifically do you mean.
I've spoken to ORA. I know those methods and a couple guys on the west coast.

 

[MnFish1]

Mature water and usually live rock. You should check out American industrial coral farm methods. Most indo farms are in the ocean.

OK - How is 'Mature water' ...... (specifically) chemically different than 'immature water'?

The key word there is 'usually'. Im sure some use Live rock. My point was it is not a necessity to growing coral.

 

[Amoo]

OK - How is 'Mature water' ...... (specifically) chemically different than 'immature water'?

The key word there is 'usually'. Im sure some use Live rock. My point was it is not a necessity to growing coral.

If you do a 100% water change on your system right now will you have a cycle?

 

[MnFish1]

If you do a 100% water change on your system right now will you have a cycle?

Not at all clear what point you're trying to make. What does the phrase 'have a cycle' mean? Also not sure what it has to do with the post I wrote earlier. ?

 

[Amoo]

Not at all clear what point you're trying to make. What does the phrase 'have a cycle' mean? Also not sure what it has to do with the post I wrote earlier. ?

My point is the nitrifying bacteria don't live just or even mostly in the water and they don't build up over night. Now take that nitrifing bacteria and apply it to everything else in a tank. That is why no matter how hard you try to chemically alter or bypass certain things, there are others that just flat out take time.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

OK - How is 'Mature water' ...... (specifically) chemically different than 'immature water'

With your previous assertions, I think you should be able to answer that. No?

 

[Sabellafella]

I dont have an answer for this pole. It depends on how you define maturity. I can take all my rock and animals that ive had for 4 years- today, and place it in a different tank around the same size. Is my tank mature? If i started my tank with live rock, is that considered mature? Maturity is defined by all biological processes have reached a medium. Due to the nature this is not an ocean, but a glass box. In our hands, maturity is taking care of our animals, following all the neccessary components to reef keeping and knowing right from wrong. If i had to list a maturity time frame for a reef, it would all come down to what rock(or surface) you use. Because bacteria runs the show. This can take months without using live rock. Without an established bacteria population, stability with parameters will never reach its peak.

 

[Rikki Reef]

I say for me, 1+ years, that seems to be when my maintenance is at a min. and the tank is more self sufficient esp. when The introduction of new life can be balanced on its own. ex. fish , coral an Inverts. My baby all grow up

 

[Scott.h]

When coralline is dime sized it's a start. When the back glass is covered is a good sign

 

[CPL376]

Only my opinion. I have no scientific data for backup. No tank no matter how old is matured until it's been over a year since you've added anything to it. If you're still making additions you're still opening yourself to greater risk of failure. Once maturity has been achieved the risks are minimized (I don't say eliminated but minimized)

 

[Forsaken77]

What about a qt tank? Does it go through the same ammonia cycle like a dt? How soon can u put fish in a qt tank if there's no lr or ls or should you add those to make it cycle

You don't put any substrate or rock in a QT tank because meds will absorb into them. The only exception is with burrowing Wrasses. I'll put a small pile of aragonite sand on the very side edge of the tank so they can feel less stressed. Wrasses don't do well in QT if they can't burrow IME.

I don't keep my QT tank constantly setup. I will use it with new fish or if I suspect I have to treat a fish, but once I'm done with it, it goes back in the box (Fluval Evo 13.5 gallon tank).

The reason for this is because if you have to use antibiotics, that will wipe out your biological filter anyway. So why keep one setup? You get yourself a Seachem Ammonia Alert suck on badge and do a large water change if it starts to read anything. Personally, I'll change all of the water, keeping just enough for the fish to be underwater, and add back the meds for the 10 gallons I removed.

Usually after any meds are administered a large water change is required anyway afterwards. And with a single fish it's usually about once a week water change. Twice a week for 2 fish.

I really don't see the need to keep a QT set up constantly, just that you have one ready to go if needed. I mean it's 13 gallons so it's easily set up & broke down when finished. And the water changes are roughly 10 gallons. But the Seachem Ammonia Alert badge is invaluable and a necessity to monitor ammonia so you don't have to continually test for it. All you should have in there is a heater, pvc pipes for the fish to hide, air stone, small powerhead, mechanical filtration, and a thermometer.

Keep a small tank and equipment that is only used for the QT (like heater, nets ect...). The only reason to keep a tank constantly set up is if you have large fish or feel you'll need to treat all of your fish at once with a med that can't be used in the display tank. But if you QT and medicate all new fish, assuming they're carrying some kind of parasite or disease, you should never have a problem in the display tank.

 

[Bob Escher]

All my levels are even and holding steady and it has been a whopping 4 months. Albeit I used the red sea tank maturation program.

This is your nitrogen cycle that is mature. There are other mature stages you will go through a few others
The diatom stage the hair algae stage and on and on
As you see the most votes is the one year mark
When you start seeing coralline algae growing on the walls of your tank and sump then it's staring to mature.

 

[simonsays]

Definitely a year. I have kept (almost) everything in my tank alive during this time. It's been about 10 months since I set up my tank and it is just now starting to stabilize.

Keeping my parameters in check has not been an issue. It's the algae and cyno blooms that have been my main scourge. I try to deal with these things without treating my tank. I feel that only masks the real problem anyway.

10 months in and my sand is finally white again!!

 

[MnFish1]

With your previous assertions, I think you should be able to answer that. No?

No - I think its a silly concept. If you are talking about 'microbiologic maturity', I'm not sure that there is data except anecdote that this is an issue in reef tanks. Makes me wonder about water maturity in tanks using high-dose ozone. It is not a common term - and thus - I asked you to define it biologically - of course, you can't do that.

 

[MnFish1]

My point is the nitrifying bacteria don't live just or even mostly in the water and they don't build up over night. Now take that nitrifing bacteria and apply it to everything else in a tank. That is why no matter how hard you try to chemically alter or bypass certain things, there are others that just flat out take time.

I don't remember suggesting that nitrifying bacteria live in water at all. In fact I would guess there is a trivial amount of such bacteria 'in the water column' at any give time. I asked the person who originally posted to define chemically the difference between 'mature' and 'immature' water. I didn't get the point of your first post, and I don't get the point of this one (no offense). If you add billions of nitrifying bacteria to a tank and they lodge in the filter/rock/wherever they like to lodge though - they are in the tank. And as I said before assuming they are alive, they will grow work just as well as bacteria that have grown into the rocks over a 2 month time.

Bacteria is bacteria. It is not the 'rock' that is 'live'. It is the bacteria that is alive on the rock (or on any other porous surface through one filters the water).

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

No - I think its a silly concept. If you are talking about 'microbiologic maturity', I'm not sure that there is data except anecdote that this is an issue in reef tanks. Makes me wonder about water maturity in tanks using high-dose ozone. It is not a common term - and thus - I asked you to define it biologically - of course, you can't do that.

No. Give me the commonly accepted and scientific definition of the term we all use. Mature water.
I actually can.

You may also want to add in what ozone does to seawater in a tank as well and how you believe that would effect maturity.
I know the answer to How ozone works.

Go ahead.

Your point here seems to be refuting most Scientific principal set before you and and avoid direct questions that would verify any knowledge possessed by you on the subject.

Scientific articles are not anecdotal when they are on the topics of biology and chemistry. These are the facts that have been presented to you. And I have head no facts from you that would refute them.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I don't remember suggesting that nitrifying bacteria live in water at all. In fact I would guess there is a trivial amount of such bacteria 'in the water column' at any give tim

You are incorrect.

 

[MnFish1]

This is your nitrogen cycle that is mature. There are other mature stages you will go through a few others
The diatom stage the hair algae stage and on and on
As you see the most votes is the one year mark
When you start seeing coralline algae growing on the walls of your tank and sump then it's staring to mature.

Who here has added fish/coral/etc to a year old tank and had a diatom bloom? Who has had a cyano bloom in a tank more than a year old? etc. My guess is that part of this discussion is happening because there are so many definitions of maturity - it is really kind of a meaningless concept.

I am surprised that no one as yet mentioned the antithesis of the 'immature tank' - that being the tank with 'old tank syndrome'.