Polyp extension in SPS frags

[Thakki]

Hello Reefers!

Little background before I jump into the questions...

Tank is 6 months old...bare bottom. Started off with live Fiji rock (bought here on R2R) and followed BRS-WWC method of 3 month for cycling and then started introducing fish. After seeing coralline algae growth at 4 month mark, started adding soft corals (few zoas, duncan, octospawn) and after 5 months added monti's and SPS frags. Tank is now full of coralline...I use Calcium reactor to maintain the alk, ca and mg. I have added phyto and copepods time to time since the tank cycled.

Have more SPS frags now...colors look great...growth is not bad for 6 month old tank but I dont see polyp extension on any of my SPS at day time. At night, I can see there is some polyp extension. So, I have a flame angel to blame for it...have seen it nip time to time. Could it the only reason. Most of my frags are coming from a fellow reefer whose tank is heavy on angels and he has polyp extension...not great but better than what I see. I dont want to get rid of my healthy flame angel without knowing for sure he is the culprit. What else could be the issue? What I have noticed is that for first few days after introducing a new frag into my tank, I see polyp extension, but soon they retract and open only at night just like others in the tank...seems like something is not right. Should I go and order an ICP test to see if what chemistry is the culprit or take the flame angel out? Also, I feel like reducing my Alk (although its stable...spot on around 11 dKh every other day I test)...recently I found that reefcrystals salt has high alk to begin with...is switching salt with lower alk makes sense? And BTW, I feed reef roids and all my corals like it and seem to respond to it.

Tank size: 100 gal (3 x 2 x 2 approx)
Light: Orphek v4 Atlantik with 2 Hydra primes (blues)
pH: 8.03 - 8.2
Alk: 11 dKh
Ca: 440 ppm
Mg: 1440 ppm
No3: 5 ppm
Po4: 0.06 ppm
Salinity: 35 - 35.2
Salt: Reef Crystals
Flow: 2 pp4, 1 pp8 and 1 pp2

Fish: 2 clowns, 3 tangs, 1 flame angel, 4 green chromis and royal gramma

 

[ScottR]

Hello Reefers!

Little background before I jump into the questions...

Tank is 6 months old...bare bottom. Started off with live Fiji rock (bought here on R2R) and followed BRS-WWC method of 3 month for cycling and then started introducing fish. After seeing coralline algae growth at 4 month mark, started adding soft corals (few zoas, duncan, octospawn) and after 5 months added monti's and SPS frags. Tank is now full of coralline...I use Calcium reactor to maintain the alk, ca and mg. I have added phyto and copepods time to time since the tank cycled.

Have more SPS frags now...colors look great...growth is not bad for 6 month old tank but I dont see polyp extension on any of my SPS at day time. At night, I can see there is some polyp extension. So, I have a flame angel to blame for it...have seen it nip time to time. Could it the only reason. Most of my frags are coming from a fellow reefer whose tank is heavy on angels and he has polyp extension...not great but better than what I see. I dont want to get rid of my healthy flame angel without knowing for sure he is the culprit. What else could be the issue? What I have noticed is that for first few days after introducing a new frag into my tank, I see polyp extension, but soon they retract and open only at night just like others in the tank...seems like something is not right. Should I go and order an ICP test to see if what chemistry is the culprit or take the flame angel out? Also, I feel like reducing my Alk (although its stable...spot on around 11 dKh every other day I test)...recently I found that reefcrystals salt has high alk to begin with...is switching salt with lower alk makes sense? And BTW, I feed reef roids and all my corals like it and seem to respond to it.

Tank size: 100 gal (3 x 2 x 2 approx)
Light: Orphek v4 Atlantik with 2 Hydra primes (blues)
pH: 8.03 - 8.2
Alk: 11 dKh
Ca: 440 ppm
Mg: 1440 ppm
No3: 5 ppm
Po4: 0.06 ppm
Salinity: 35 - 35.2
Salt: Reef Crystals
Flow: 2 pp4, 1 pp8 and 1 pp2

Fish: 2 clowns, 3 tangs, 1 flame angel, 4 green chromis and royal gramma

Polyps extending is going to be a hot topic on here. My take away is that extended polyp extension isn’t a sign of a healthy coral (but it also could be). If the corals get the energy they need from the zooxanthellae, they have no need to extend their polyps.

Amino acids are known to throw corals into feeding mode and make them extend their polyps. You could try adding one of the many commercially available products to test them; see if they open if you’re that worried.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

It’s the flame angel. Doesn’t matter if you see him pick or not. Don’t worry about it, this is the natural state of corals in the wild.

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

It’s the flame angel. Doesn’t matter if you see him pick or not. Don’t worry about it, this is the natural state of corals in the wild.

 

[LIreefguy]

Hello Reefers!

Little background before I jump into the questions...

Tank is 6 months old...bare bottom. Started off with live Fiji rock (bought here on R2R) and followed BRS-WWC method of 3 month for cycling and then started introducing fish. After seeing coralline algae growth at 4 month mark, started adding soft corals (few zoas, duncan, octospawn) and after 5 months added monti's and SPS frags. Tank is now full of coralline...I use Calcium reactor to maintain the alk, ca and mg. I have added phyto and copepods time to time since the tank cycled.

Have more SPS frags now...colors look great...growth is not bad for 6 month old tank but I dont see polyp extension on any of my SPS at day time. At night, I can see there is some polyp extension. So, I have a flame angel to blame for it...have seen it nip time to time. Could it the only reason. Most of my frags are coming from a fellow reefer whose tank is heavy on angels and he has polyp extension...not great but better than what I see. I dont want to get rid of my healthy flame angel without knowing for sure he is the culprit. What else could be the issue? What I have noticed is that for first few days after introducing a new frag into my tank, I see polyp extension, but soon they retract and open only at night just like others in the tank...seems like something is not right. Should I go and order an ICP test to see if what chemistry is the culprit or take the flame angel out? Also, I feel like reducing my Alk (although its stable...spot on around 11 dKh every other day I test)...recently I found that reefcrystals salt has high alk to begin with...is switching salt with lower alk makes sense? And BTW, I feed reef roids and all my corals like it and seem to respond to it.

Tank size: 100 gal (3 x 2 x 2 approx)
Light: Orphek v4 Atlantik with 2 Hydra primes (blues)
pH: 8.03 - 8.2
Alk: 11 dKh
Ca: 440 ppm
Mg: 1440 ppm
No3: 5 ppm
Po4: 0.06 ppm
Salinity: 35 - 35.2
Salt: Reef Crystals
Flow: 2 pp4, 1 pp8 and 1 pp2

Fish: 2 clowns, 3 tangs, 1 flame angel, 4 green chromis and royal gramma

I just got rid of my 3 dwaft angels for the same reason
Had them for 4 years
Flame ,flameback and coral beauty

My green slimmer , bubblegum digi wouldn’t show any extension in my main tank but my frag tank they would and also would grow much faster in my frag tank. Finally got rid of them and now my sps are showing extension during the day and night

Hope this helps

Ps for what it’s worth I never saw them pick much at my sps either. But when I would move coral back to my frag tank it would tAke a week to open up again

So it seems once they harass it they don’t have to do it often for coral not to extend its polys

 

[Thakki]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I have the trap set in my tank...all my fish are scared of this thing...I will let them get used to it and hopefully catch the angel.

I did notice little polyp extension to my surprise...I dosed cap full of aqua vitro fuel (usually I dont...because in the past it created algae bloom...but dared to do it this time). Also over the weekend my salinity dropped as the new batch of water change was at lower salinity and now my tanks salinity is 34...I am slowly bringing it back to 35. Now I am not sure if the little polyp extension I saw was because or lower salinity or amino acids dosing!!!

Any thoughts? Could drop in salinity cause polyp extension?

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

If you don’t mind the lack of PE the angel can likely stay. It’s just a trade off. Personally I wouldn’t remove the fish unless you were seeing it completely destroying corals. As I said before, lack of PE does not indicate unhealthy corals.

 

[Thakki]

If you don’t mind the lack of PE the angel can likely stay. It’s just a trade off. Personally I wouldn’t remove the fish unless you were seeing it completely destroying corals. As I said before, lack of PE does not indicate unhealthy corals.

I dont like to either...and that fish is my fav. But the thing is I like the hairy look of the SPS...and also I am worried if its causing slow growth. You are right though...that fish is not causing any major damage at all.

 

[LIreefguy]

First the term unhealthy is rather ambiguous.

I will state my experience. I have 4 tanks, all running on ecotech lighting. All same system

My main tank had 3 dwaft angels in it
Flame angel
Flameback
Coral beauty

Had them in the tank for at least 3 years or more

Was able to grow sps but milli, digi, corals like that would never fully open
If I loved them to my frag tank they would stay closed for a week or more then finally open up

I had corals in both tanks With the angels and without the angels
I will tell you the corals grew much much faster in the tanks with out the angels

I have 20 different frags of over 7 different corals and the growth without the angels isn’t even close

Now is lack of polyp extension unhealthy in corals. No idea what unhealthy means. If it means dying. No if everything else in your tank is prefect or right for lack of a better work. The sps will grow. But if unhealthy means to you not growing as fast or as big as possible then no

It really is up to you. It took my 4 months of debating by I finally got rid of my angels. In the end I wanted my reef tank to reach its full potential.
Seeing my bubble gum digi with no polyp extension imo was just ugly and sad.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Thakki]

Thanks again. All my fish except my angel have come close the the trap...that angel seems to be very smart...doesnt go anywhere close to it...so still the trap is in the tank...waiting...

Anyone around here dose aqua vitro fuel amino acids? Have you seen any algae bloom right after dosing? Yesterday, I was target feeding reef roids and to my surprise there was lot of response from all my sps...usually only few but almost all of them had those long stringy/slimy thing to catch the food...I am thinking its possibly because of amino acids dosing...I dont want to try overdoing it as I can worried of another algae bloom.

 

[BeejReef]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I have the trap set in my tank...all my fish are scared of this thing...I will let them get used to it and hopefully catch the angel.

I did notice little polyp extension to my surprise...I dosed cap full of aqua vitro fuel (usually I dont...because in the past it created algae bloom...but dared to do it this time). Also over the weekend my salinity dropped as the new batch of water change was at lower salinity and now my tanks salinity is 34...I am slowly bringing it back to 35. Now I am not sure if the little polyp extension I saw was because or lower salinity or amino acids dosing!!!

Any thoughts? Could drop in salinity cause polyp extension?

Not to hijack, but I just noticed my tank seriously open up when I had a little salinity drop due to a slight overfill. Things looked significantly happier. What gives?

 

[LIreefguy]

Thanks again. All my fish except my angel have come close the the trap...that angel seems to be very smart...doesnt go anywhere close to it...so still the trap is in the tank...waiting...

Anyone around here dose aqua vitro fuel amino acids? Have you seen any algae bloom right after dosing? Yesterday, I was target feeding reef roids and to my surprise there was lot of response from all my sps...usually only few but almost all of them had those long stringy/slimy thing to catch the food...I am thinking its possibly because of amino acids dosing...I dont want to try overdoing it as I can worried of another algae bloom.

Don’t feed your tank all day. Then put a clip of nori in the trap. This is how I caught all 3 of mine in 20 mins

 

[Thakki]

Not to hijack, but I just noticed my tank seriously open up when I had a little salinity drop due to a slight overfill. Things looked significantly happier. What gives?

Thats exactly what happened to me as well...so in my case they happened at the same time...so dont know which is causing the corals to open up...is it lower salinity or amino dosing!!!

Any one else experienced similar behavior in their tanks?

 

[Thakki]

Don’t feed your tank all day. Then put a clip of nori in the trap. This is how I caught all 3 of mine in 20 mins

I read this somewhere too..but this angel is like rather not eat than go near that trap...I am also worried if I make him starve, he may go against corals more aggressively.

 

[smartwater101]

I just banished 4 clown gobies, yesterday, for picking at my sps. 2 paired up in a large colony and where clearing the tissue on one of the branches to lay eggs. I was fine with that when it was only one branch, but then they moved onto more.

The other 2 picked on EVERYTHING. Constantly annoying the coral so they could eat the slime. New frags were always a prime target so I decided they had to go as well.

As for amino acids, yes, things like AcroPower will cause algea if dosed too much. Simply pull back the dosage and the issue will resolve itself.

 

[Thakki]

Just wanted to bump this and hear more from you guys on salinity vs polyp extension relationship if there is one.

 

[madweazl]

My opinion, the polyp extension is simply a feeding response. If the corals sense something in the water, they'll try to capture it. My acroporas always show some extension (some more than others) but when I feed the fish, they get crazy. If I clean the algae off the glass, they also open up huge. Similarly, if the pistol shrimp or diamond goby are going to town, they show even more polyp extension. Because of this, I stopped using filter socks (about 2.5 years ago) so there is always "stuff" suspended in my water column; I believe these suspended particles are why I always have polyp extension.

 

[Thakki]

My opinion, the polyp extension is simply a feeding response. If the corals sense something in the water, they'll try to capture it. My acroporas always show some extension (some more than others) but when I feed the fish, they get crazy. If I clean the algae off the glass, they also open up huge. Similarly, if the pistol shrimp or diamond goby are going to town, they show even more polyp extension. Because of this, I stopped using filter socks (about 2.5 years ago) so there is always "stuff" suspended in my water column; I believe these suspended particles are why I always have polyp extension.

I ditched the socks too like more than a month now.

 

[blasterman]

If you have naturally 'fuzzy' SPS in your tank like slimers, millis, pocs, stylos or digipora and they don't show really good polyp extension then there's something wrong. Obviously if we're talking about deeper water 'smooth' acropora even caps I'm less concerned. If you have the former variety though I listed and they are constantly retracted there's an issue. pH is typically my first culprit or saturated carbonate levels (that's a big problem in a bare bottom tank). Readings from your test kit don't matter because hydrogen ion / carbonic acid levels are far more complex than a linear scale.

Another conformation is if you have some paly colonies exhibiting partial retraction or stunted skirts. That's a good indicator of water chemistry -vs- environmental factors like nipping angels.

 

[Thakki]

If you have naturally 'fuzzy' SPS in your tank like slimers, millis, pocs, stylos or digipora and they don't show really good polyp extension then there's something wrong. Obviously if we're talking about deeper water 'smooth' acropora even caps I'm less concerned. If you have the former variety though I listed and they are constantly retracted there's an issue. pH is typically my first culprit or saturated carbonate levels (that's a big problem in a bare bottom tank). Readings from your test kit don't matter because hydrogen ion / carbonic acid levels are far more complex than a linear scale.

Another conformation is if you have some paly colonies exhibiting partial retraction or stunted skirts. That's a good indicator of water chemistry -vs- environmental factors like nipping angels.

I have few tenuis and millis that should have PE...but not much under light. I also have few palys...they seem to be okay...have seen an angel nip very rarely and they dont mind...retract and open up in no time...so there is something wrong with chemistry I think. But again I have good PE at night!!!

Anyway, I finally gave up on catching the angel over the weekend...pulled out the trap. Ordered ATI ICP test kit. Will be sending my water for testing. My tank is bare bottom too...perhaps you are right on carbonate levels...coralline grows well though....not sure they are related...and the pH hovers between 8.03 to 8.23 daily.