Polyplab One (Calcium Acetate)

Earl Karl · Sep 23, 2019

So I loved my calcium reactor as it keeps my big tank very stable and resulted in amazing acro growth. However, even though it isn't frequent, it is a pain to maintain (I'm a sit back and enjoy your reef type of dude). I decided to do a new method on my frag/growout tank.

Frag/growout tank is 100g with 40g sump (25g of water) if this info helps. I don't care how expensive it is, I care about simplicity and stability. I know one con of calcium acetate products is that it gets expensive over time, but I got that covered. What I plan to do is set up a doser that would dose Polyplab One very frequently throughout the day. I know dosers can dose 0.1 per minute, which is 144ml per day. That maybe too much depending on how strong the solution is, but I can space it out and make sure it doses very frequently. Maybe one day when I get huge colonies that uses a lot of alk., I can pretty much dose continuously throughout the day for maximum stability.

I have heard that Polyplab One crystallizes on the bottom or something like that, so I do plan to run a wavemaker in the dosing container to prevent that from happening.

I would like to hear thoughts and suggestions about this. @Polyplab @Randy Holmes-Farley

Reefnoobz90 · Sep 23, 2019

Rather than a pump maybe look at a stirrer like this one

HI190M-1 MINI MAGNETIC STIRRER

The HI190M is a compact and lightweight magnetic stirrer. With a small footprint, lack of laboratory bench space is no longer a concern. Built to last with a protective covering and a user-adjustable stirring speed, this small magnetic stirrer is great for any lab space. Compact size to...

clearchoiceaquatics.com

I don't know for sure but I think the pump would create heat and get a calcium buildup on the impeller. The Icecap kalk stirrer might work as well

Earl Karl · Sep 23, 2019

Reefnoobz90 said:
Rather than a pump maybe look at a stirrer like this one

HI190M-1 MINI MAGNETIC STIRRER

The HI190M is a compact and lightweight magnetic stirrer. With a small footprint, lack of laboratory bench space is no longer a concern. Built to last with a protective covering and a user-adjustable stirring speed, this small magnetic stirrer is great for any lab space. Compact size to...

clearchoiceaquatics.com

I don't know for sure but I think the pump would create heat and get a calcium buildup on the impeller. The Icecap kalk stirrer might work as well

Good idea, I do have a magnetic stirrer, I could use that. Thanks for suggestion.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 23, 2019

There are many products like this, so you can elect other brands too. If it is so concentrated that some precipitates, I’d just dilute it a bit before trying a mixing system. Just don’t dilute too much it it may become a festival of bacteria.

Earl Karl · Sep 23, 2019

I do get Polyplab One at a discount. Can you explain the relation between heavy dilution and bacteria? Does it have to do with the acetate?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 23, 2019

Earl Karl said:
I do get Polyplab One at a discount. Can you explain the relation between heavy dilution and bacteria? Does it have to do with the acetate?

Yes, they will love to eat it, but when concentrated they will not survive. Too salty. Just like ethanol in vodka. Dilute it too much and it will grow bacteria.

Earl Karl · Sep 23, 2019

Ah I see. Thank you so much! I will see what I can do with my new tank!

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 24, 2019

You’re welcome. Happy Reefing

Earl Karl · Sep 24, 2019

Oh! I have one more question (Well, a series on the same topic). Instead of sodium carbonate (or bicarbonate), can you replace it with sodium acetate for 2 part? Could you potentially mix these together to make one solution? This could potentially bring up another way to introduce a source of calcium and carbonate at lower cost since calcium acetate products are usually expensive over time.

Earl Karl · Sep 25, 2019

Oh! I have one more question (Well, a series on the same topic). Instead of sodium carbonate (or bicarbonate), can you replace it with sodium acetate for 2 part? Could you potentially mix these together to make one solution? This could potentially bring up another way to introduce a source of calcium and carbonate at lower cost since calcium acetate products are usually expensive over time.

This might be a better option if it works. Obviously I can get products other than PolypLab One, but I get this at a discount so it is very cheap compared to others like Tropic Marin. The problem is that PolypLab One is actually not a balanced solution. In every 500 ml, there are about 70,000 mg/l Calcium and 4000 meq/l Alkalinity, which is not balanced. You would need about 80,000 mg/l of Calcium in order to be balanced with 4000 meq/l Alkalinity. The reason why this product is not balanced is because PolypLab added Hydroxide Salts (NaOH) to the solution in order to combat the excess CO2 after acetate is metabolized.

I hope the method I posted above works because that would mean I can dose my tank at a low cost. I would wanna try Part 1 consisting of Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Chloride, and Strontium Chloride and Part 2 consisting of Sodium Acetate, Sodium Hydroxide, and Potassium Iodide. Probably going to get a lot of NaCl byproduct out of this, but I'm assuming it would be similar to regular 2 part. And best case scenario is that if I can mix them all together into one solution, which theoretically I should be able to since I don't think anything would precipitate. I would like to go Calcium Acetate and Calcium Hydroxide, but I feel that would be expensive. @Randy Holmes-Farley I would like to hear thoughts and suggestions about this.

I know there is something about spectator ions but I am a bit rusty with chemistry.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 26, 2019

Earl Karl said:
Oh! I have one more question (Well, a series on the same topic). Instead of sodium carbonate (or bicarbonate), can you replace it with sodium acetate for 2 part? Could you potentially mix these together to make one solution? This could potentially bring up another way to introduce a source of calcium and carbonate at lower cost since calcium acetate products are usually expensive over time.

Yes, you can mix sodium acetate and calcium chloride, but it will be much more expensive than a two part and adjusting doses independently will be tricky.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 26, 2019

Can’t mix calcium acetate and calcium hydroxide. The latter will limit the solubility and adding calcium acetate to it will precipitate calcium hydroxide.

Earl Karl · Sep 28, 2019

If I were to dose Calcium Hydroxide and Calcium Acetate from separate containers, could I dose them at the same time equally and not have them precipitate like 2 part?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 29, 2019

Earl Karl said:
If I were to dose Calcium Hydroxide and Calcium Acetate from separate containers, could I dose them at the same time equally and not have them precipitate like 2 part?

Correct.

Earl Karl · Sep 29, 2019

Hmm, that's good news. I'm going to play around with them then. I'm gonna try setting up 2 containers, one having Calcium Acetate and the other having Calcium Hydroxide. Then I will use a doser to dose the chemicals throughout the day, theoretically creating ultimate stability without high initial setup cost and occasional high maintenance like a CaRX. I found it a lot cheaper to just go with Calcium Chloride and Sodium Acetate (and Sodium Hydroxide for the other container) than just buying Calcium Acetate and Calcium Hydroxide (Not too sure actually, maybe my calculations could be wrong). Gonna have to do some math and chemistry (I'm a college kid so I'm pretty rusty haha) to make a balanced solution. I do want to make each solution to contain around 4,000 meq/l of Alk. and 80,000 mg/l of Ca so if my 100g tank were to consume 1 dkh a day, 500ml of each solution would last me about a month. Now I just gotta calculate how much of Calcium Chloride and Sodium Acetate (or Sodium Hydroxide for the other container) to use per liter of water, especially when sodium and chloride plays a factor. Kinda need help though...

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 29, 2019

Just one comment, calcium hydroxide or calcium acetate or any mixture of the two will drive up calcium long term if you use them to maintain alkalinity.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 29, 2019

Earl Karl said:
Hmm, that's good news. I'm going to play around with them then. I'm gonna try setting up 2 containers, one having Calcium Acetate and the other having Calcium Hydroxide. Then I will use a doser to dose the chemicals throughout the day, theoretically creating ultimate stability without high initial setup cost and occasional high maintenance like a CaRX. I found it a lot cheaper to just go with Calcium Chloride and Sodium Acetate (and Sodium Hydroxide for the other container) than just buying Calcium Acetate and Calcium Hydroxide (Not too sure actually, maybe my calculations could be wrong). Gonna have to do some math and chemistry (I'm a college kid so I'm pretty rusty haha) to make a balanced solution. I do want to make each solution to contain around 4,000 meq/l of Alk. and 80,000 mg/l of Ca so if my 100g tank were to consume 1 dkh a day, 500ml of each solution would last me about a month. Now I just gotta calculate how much of Calcium Chloride and Sodium Acetate (or Sodium Hydroxide for the other container) to use per liter of water, especially when sodium and chloride plays a factor. Kinda need help though...

I really do not understand the desire to use sodium acetate instead of sodium bicarbonate, but to develop an exact recipe you will need to know the exact forms to be used. Specifically, whether there are hydrated firms or not (I discuss that in my diy recipe articles).

Earl Karl · Sep 29, 2019

I do not like sodium bicarbonate because I don't really get the stability I want even with a doser. The growth of acros that I get from CaRX is a huge difference than using a doser. However, there is a really high initial cost with CaRX and the occasional maintenance can be a hassle.

Besides, this is just for an experiment tank, my display tank has a CaRX. I just want to see if I can create a method that is fairly low cost and easy to maintain, yet effective. Hard to achieve, but not impossible.

The chemicals that I plan to use are anhydrous, I pretty much want it as pure and potent as possible.

Also, how will it drive up calcium long term? I thought they were in equal ratios?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 29, 2019

Anhydrous calcium chloride is not any purer than the dihydrate that it would be made from industrially. But it is ok to use.

1:1 calcium to carbonate is not balanced long term because when aragonite or calcite is formed in the tank, magnesium and strontium replace some of the calcium in the structure. Thus, while I only used calcium hydroxide for 20 years, I used a low calcium mix to offset that tendency and stabilized with calcium higher than the salt mix.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Sep 29, 2019

If you want to swap sodium acetate for the sodium bicarbonate in my diy recipes, the amount needed is nearly identical. Use 2.4% less of sodium acetate. So if my recipe called for 100 grams sodium bicarbonate, use 97.6 g of sodium acetate.