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savetheocean

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Please help me, whats wrong with him? How can I help?
By the way, there was an issue with acclimation. Long story short bag ripped and I had one choice, put him in. He is swimming around the tank more than he did this morning. (I added yesterday)

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Around the anal fins, theres a bulge. It could just be a bunch of food, worms? I didnt qt because my lfs treats with copper. I know I know, I am going to start qt with a 40 gallon and hob filter
 
Always being cleaned by shrimp, normal?
 
I cannot see what you're describing-- but you're definitely going to need that QT :)
 
It's still hard for me to tell much. The fact that the fish is enticing cleaning so frequently has me worried about sinister parasites -- especially since it has only been in the tank 24 hours at this point..
 
It's still hard for me to tell much. The fact that the fish is enticing cleaning so frequently has me worried about sinister parasites -- especially since it has only been in the tank 24 hours at this point..
He is sort of opening up, hanging around the powerhead. But I do think there is something on him which scares me..
 
I didnt qt because my lfs treats with copper.

Is he eating? If so, what?

What was his state before you brought him home....and the state of his tank and surrounding tanks there?

Can you get him out to at least do a freshwater dip? I know you made the best decision you could in the pinch and I agree it was a fine decision, but ideally you might've had a freshwater dip ready before you got the bag since you knew fish were coming. I float a shoe-box sized rubbermaid container that's full enough of dechlorinated tap water to cover the target fish for at least long enough to match the tank's temperature....but longer as needed, like if you're expecting fish later. ;)

Even though it's after the fact, I'd still try to net him out for a dip if you can do it with minimal stress to him and the rest of the tank. Causing a lot of stress in the process may be worse than just letting it work itself out....for one thing the fish might be more susceptible to internal damage in this state, so tons of thrashing around the tank might not be ideal in and of itself.

Thankfully that bulge is not a sign of ich or velvet, so you should relax at least a little bit knowing that. The swimming into the powerhead is definitely concerning though as it implies trouble breathing.

Was he dry, out of water for any length of time? Was there any struggle with the cut-bag incident where he might've sustained injury? Was he ever in too warm or too cold of water?
 
Is he eating? If so, what?

What was his state before you brought him home....and the state of his tank and surrounding tanks there?

Can you get him out to at least do a freshwater dip? I know you made the best decision you could in the pinch and I agree it was a fine decision, but ideally you might've had a freshwater dip ready before you got the bag since you knew fish were coming. I float a shoe-box sized rubbermaid container that's full enough of dechlorinated tap water to cover the target fish for at least long enough to match the tank's temperature....but longer as needed, like if you're expecting fish later. ;)

Even though it's after the fact, I'd still try to net him out for a dip if you can do it with minimal stress to him and the rest of the tank. Causing a lot of stress in the process may be worse than just letting it work itself out....for one thing the fish might be more susceptible to internal damage in this state, so tons of thrashing around the tank might not be ideal in and of itself.

Thankfully that bulge is not a sign of ich or velvet, so you should relax at least a little bit knowing that. The swimming into the powerhead is definitely concerning though as it implies trouble breathing.

Was he dry, out of water for any length of time? Was there any struggle with the cut-bag incident where he might've sustained injury? Was he ever in too warm or too cold of water?
He has pecked at some frozen fish frenzy,
Im setting up a qt tank as we speak, if it gets worse I will
He isnt swimming into it, he will be under it and as soon as I walk in he swims back into the cave to be cleaned by shrimp
 
If he's not trying to get help breathing AND if he's eating, then I don't think he's in dire trouble – at least not from the usual parasites.

If you really think there's something on him, then prioritize the fresh water dip. Forget the QT at least for now. (I mean it's OK to get it ready in general, but forget it for the moment in this conversation.)

If you dip him A) you'll have a MUCH BETTER CHANCE to observe him in detail and B) if he has flatworms they'll probably drop right off, but at minimum will turn opaque white become visible. Other external parasites are variously susceptible to fresh water/salinity shock too so this is generally a very good practice for new fish.

For what it's worth, in about five years at an all-salt store, this was the main treatment we used on new fish. (They did it approximately this way for a decade before I showed up too!) Everyone got a fresh water dip and then placed into the main system....there were only minor exceptions where more would be required: for example, specific QT practices or intensive feeding routines. I only remember our hospital tanks being in use a small handful of times and we only medicated the main systems a small handful of times. Fish were by and large very healthy doing it this way....losses were minimal...close to zero.
 
If he's not trying to get help breathing AND if he's eating, then I don't think he's in dire trouble – at least not from the usual parasites.

If you really think there's something on him, then prioritize the fresh water dip. Forget the QT at least for now. (I mean it's OK to get it ready in general, but forget it for the moment in this conversation.)

If you dip him A) you'll have a MUCH BETTER CHANCE to observe him in detail and B) if he has flatworms they'll probably drop right off, but at minimum will turn opaque white become visible. Other external parasites are variously susceptible to fresh water/salinity shock too so this is generally a very good practice for new fish.

For what it's worth, in about five years at an all-salt store, this was the main treatment we used on new fish. (They did it approximately this way for a decade before I showed up too!) Everyone got a fresh water dip and then placed into the main system....there were only minor exceptions where more would be required: for example, specific QT practices or intensive feeding routines. I only remember our hospital tanks being in use a small handful of times and we only medicated the main systems a small handful of times. Fish were by and large very healthy doing it this way....losses were minimal...close to zero.
Im scared it will stress him out too much and he will die.. Im scared he could die, if it looks worse tomorrow ill do a dip for 5 minutes. Ive also been cleaning the qt with white vinegar, is that okay if I wash it off with water?
 
A freshwater dip is very non-stressful. The catching though, can be very stressful if you allow it to be. You have to use your judgement on that – just don't do anything that seems like it would be stressful. I almost always found it easier to lightly chase them into one of these with the net vs trying to catch with the net directly:



Convalescent Home / Specimen Container, Large
 
A freshwater dip is very non-stressful. The catching though, can be very stressful if you allow it to be. You have to use your judgement on that – just don't do anything that seems like it would be stressful. I almost always found it easier to lightly chase them into one of these with the net vs trying to catch with the net directly:



Convalescent Home / Specimen Container, Large
You think I should dip today or tomorrow? Tonight maybe, give him overnight to relax. How long is the dip? Should a bubbler be in there for air? I have stored RO/DI water is that good? I can also just make a gallon or two.
 
ASAP if you think you can net him with minimal stress.

The dip can be as long as needed really, but 5-10 minutes is all it will probably take in reality.

I'd say maybe 1 in 100 fish will freak out a little when they first hit the fresh water and they might act stunned for a minute after they go in. This is expected, so don't freak out. :)

If you feel they are in persistent stress in the fresh water, then something else may be the matter – move them back to saltwater. I don't recall ever having to move a fish back myself.....but I do remember forgetting to dechlorinate the dip one time. THAT is definitely a no-no. Dechlorination is a must. ;)
 
I definitely think you should consider throwing together a cheap QT. I agree with Bruce, there is a good possibility you are dealing with "suppressed" velvet. The problem with stores using copper is that it's often either a) sub-therapeutic or b) not treated long enough to fully eradicate parasites. This can actually mask symptoms.

I would absolutely suggest a fw dip in route to QT to check for flukes (also very likely with this particular fish). Preferably followed by an acriflavine bath to ward off secondary infections. Read post #2 in the link posted above for velvet for emergency treatment protocol.

Also, this for instructions and a detailed video on how to perform a fw dip and what flukes "look" like:
Freshwater Dip

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Freshwater-Dip.248898/
 

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