Price War! A guide for new hobbyists

[Jon Fishman]

I know it has been covered ad nauseam, but I i still feel the need to talk some people off the ledge!

I am trying to fill a tank with color, movement, and “shape”. The knee-jerk reaction is to look at what some online retailers or even other hobbyists are charging for 3/4” frags, and cry foul.

Awhile back (wish I could cite my sources) someone was tearing down a tank, maybe a 55g or so..... either way, it was wall-to-wall frogspawn. Largest colony I’ve ever seen...... it was amazing. Suggestions to donate it to a local aquarium etc if you recall the topic. Anyways, although a bit one dimensional for my tastes, it was ordinary frogspawn, and it was AMAZING because it was established and healthy. I would take it over 50 random little frags on plugs that were $100 each any-day.

I myself have gotten some tiny frags...... some $5-$10 pieces that are growing out, 15 or so from a live-sale that have grown out to varying degrees. etc. I even got the Walt Disney that all the kids rave about....... size-for-size my purple stylo is just as good looking.

I have a frag rack.... I don’t like that I have one, but I do.

I typically find my most gratifying additions are those that are large colonies of usually un-named coral that are fairly common.

Local tank tear-downs from people who are getting out of the hobby are my bread and butter....... These people aren’t amateur coral farmers growing sticks and cutting off nubs to sell every 6 months. These are just guys/gals who did the same thing as me.... added a bunch of stuff to their tank they found locally, some of which, unbeknownst to them because they aren’t on R2R or other sources, have grown exponentially more expensive.

The discussion of how prices have gone insane, what’s happened to the hobby, etc etc aren’t going anywhere, but you don’t need to drink the kool-aid!

Some of my stuff has names, most probably, but I don’t really know what 90% are. The only person who probably cares about your Lepto-shira-cornbread bounce mushroom, is you..... unless you’re selling coral.....


And this is the part to avoid! If you’re a new hobbyist, don’t go into it thinking anything is going to garner any sort of money for other things, or paying itself off or offsetting any sort of expense at all....... If you buy a $5 coral, or a $500 coral, you should do so knowing that you hope to gain enough enjoyment from that coral in your tank to justify the price. Don’t try to calculate the growth rate and look at it as an investment....... If it grows big and healthy and you need to cut it back etc.... trading is the most rewarding way of acquiring new coral.

My 6, but splitting into about 8 heads Torch immediately looked good where I placed it..... no frag plug etc..... Whether you think an “Aussie Gold” or whatever is better looking is subjective I suppose. I guess I haven’t seen one i. person, but for whatever the difference between $50 I paid for 6 heads vs what 6 heads of gold would cost..... I guess ignorance is bliss.

If your intention is to buy $1,000 corals and grow/frag/sell/repeat, that’s fine, but my suggestion to new hobbyists, is that if you aren’t running a frag tank etc, and running that completely separate system..... don’t sell. It’s not that you can’t grow nice corals etc in you DT, it’s that you’re robbing yourself of the nice display that you may otherwise have.

I wish I would have had my own advice...... some of my cheapest corals are my favorites...... stay off the hype train. The success is just as sweet, and the failures certainly don’t hit you as hard when it was a $10 frag.

 

[AZMSGT]

So... you have an axe to grind against the online coral sellers. You make good points on buying local unfortunately many people can’t.

Just that these types of posts come up all the time.

I will say, I bought several frags at a local club meeting and LFS, happy with my purchase.

 

[Sump Crab]

I do plan on future trading, not selling

 

[Jon Fishman]

So... you have an axe to grind against the online coral sellers. You make good points on buying local unfortunately many people can’t.

Just that these types of posts come up all the time.

I will say, I bought several frags at a local club meeting and LFS, happy with my purchase.

Not just retailers though. I know shipping is pretty expensive, but it’s kinda sad that $300+ bounces (I keep using those as an exMple because I just don’t understand the price/demand) are much more common than various “starter packs” similar to what LA etc sells.

If someone has a tank over-growing with coral and frags out a grab-bag of unnamed corals, it usually peaks my interest...... But those offerings are few and far between

 

[ZoWhat]

In 15yrs taking to guys who setup frag shops in their basements.....with all things considered btwn equip, water changes, extra electricity, their time dealing with no-shows, dealing with ppl who kill their coral within 24hrs and want a full refund or get threatened with Small Claims Court, or get threatened that they are running a biz in a neighborhood that's zoned residential and they'll turn them into the local Commerce authorities...etc etc....

NONE OF THEM say it's worth their time and effort and investment money.

Up front costs on equip to setup in your basement will take at least 3yrs to break even

The only way to make money is with a VOLUME of sales thru online Vending....which is another migraine to deal with.

No money to speak of to sell corals out of your basement via Craigslist or Reef Clubs......And the ONLY reason they keep doing it is it MAY lhelp them buy consumables for their own DT.

Dont expect your checking account to double when/if you sell frags out of your basement. Its a breakeven biz at best unless you have phenomenal Marketing skills to take your biz waaaaay past selling locally

 

[X-37B]

So... you have an axe to grind against the online coral sellers. You make good points on buying local unfortunately many people can’t.

Just that these types of posts come up all the time.

I will say, I bought several frags at a local club meeting and LFS, happy with my purchase.

We have no local club and one excellent lfs. The group of reefers here are a pretty
closed knit group. They trade with each other. That being said I was at said lfs a month ago and a person walked in with a stag frag in a cup that I have been trying to locate. He was going to do an exchange I believe.
Started talking to him and he ended up giving me the frag. I offered to pay.
We need more people like this.

 

[jlts21]

Frag/farm for trade to local LFS’ for nice corals or fish for your DT. #WinWin

 

[volcano1]

 

[volcano1]

I have a Frag tank , because I need to trim time to time. I have some named and no name corals. I price stuff generally between $15-30, for larger frag. I get very little takers. So if you think you’ll make money with a Frag tank, good luck.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Zachbud]

Rather disappointing after setting up a propagation/coral room guess I’ll just enjoy it myself 600g room is sounding lonely

 

[The Aquatic Arsenal]

In 15yrs taking to guys who setup frag shops in their basements.....with all things considered btwn equip, water changes, extra electricity, their time dealing with no-shows, dealing with ppl who kill their coral within 24hrs and want a full refund or get threatened with Small Claims Court, or get threatened that they are running a biz in a neighborhood that's zoned residential and they'll turn them into the local Commerce authorities...etc etc....

NONE OF THEM say it's worth their time and effort and investment money.

Up front costs on equip to setup in your basement will take at least 3yrs to break even

The only way to make money is with a VOLUME of sales thru online Vending....which is another migraine to deal with.

No money to speak of to sell corals out of your basement via Craigslist or Reef Clubs......And the ONLY reason they keep doing it is it MAY lhelp them buy consumables for their own DT.

Dont expect your checking account to double when/if you sell frags out of your basement. Its a breakeven biz at best unless you have phenomenal Marketing skills to take your biz waaaaay past selling locally

Out of the threads complaining about vendor pricing, I believe you are the first person to think about the whole picture. With all of the bans in place, if the wholesaler raises their prices, then the retailer has to do the same. Yes there will be fads or whatever, but not all vendors are out for the money. There are many of us that have the opportunity to start a business selling for whatevers reason and are just looking out for the customer.

Also, what I think a lot of people are wanting is pricing to be even across the board, but that isn't really fair either. Some people operate chop shops, some do a mix of a chop shop and growing out their own stock, and then you have some really great vendors that have the ability to growing out as much coral as possible. I know everyone has mixed opinions about everything, but look at WWC. What they are doing is what I see as the future of the hobby. There are other vendors growing out coral as well.

There is just so much that goes on behind the scenes that a lot of people don't think of. Just like any business of course.

 

[Albert Bazaar]

I know it has been covered ad nauseam, but I i still feel the need to talk some people off the ledge!

I am trying to fill a tank with color, movement, and “shape”. The knee-jerk reaction is to look at what some online retailers or even other hobbyists are charging for 3/4” frags, and cry foul.

Awhile back (wish I could cite my sources) someone was tearing down a tank, maybe a 55g or so..... either way, it was wall-to-wall frogspawn. Largest colony I’ve ever seen...... it was amazing. Suggestions to donate it to a local aquarium etc if you recall the topic. Anyways, although a bit one dimensional for my tastes, it was ordinary frogspawn, and it was AMAZING because it was established and healthy. I would take it over 50 random little frags on plugs that were $100 each any-day.

I myself have gotten some tiny frags...... some $5-$10 pieces that are growing out, 15 or so from a live-sale that have grown out to varying degrees. etc. I even got the Walt Disney that all the kids rave about....... size-for-size my purple stylo is just as good looking.

I have a frag rack.... I don’t like that I have one, but I do.

I typically find my most gratifying additions are those that are large colonies of usually un-named coral that are fairly common.

Local tank tear-downs from people who are getting out of the hobby are my bread and butter....... These people aren’t amateur coral farmers growing sticks and cutting off nubs to sell every 6 months. These are just guys/gals who did the same thing as me.... added a bunch of stuff to their tank they found locally, some of which, unbeknownst to them because they aren’t on R2R or other sources, have grown exponentially more expensive.

The discussion of how prices have gone insane, what’s happened to the hobby, etc etc aren’t going anywhere, but you don’t need to drink the kool-aid!

Some of my stuff has names, most probably, but I don’t really know what 90% are. The only person who probably cares about your Lepto-shira-cornbread bounce mushroom, is you..... unless you’re selling coral.....


And this is the part to avoid! If you’re a new hobbyist, don’t go into it thinking anything is going to garner any sort of money for other things, or paying itself off or offsetting any sort of expense at all....... If you buy a $5 coral, or a $500 coral, you should do so knowing that you hope to gain enough enjoyment from that coral in your tank to justify the price. Don’t try to calculate the growth rate and look at it as an investment....... If it grows big and healthy and you need to cut it back etc.... trading is the most rewarding way of acquiring new coral.

My 6, but splitting into about 8 heads Torch immediately looked good where I placed it..... no frag plug etc..... Whether you think an “Aussie Gold” or whatever is better looking is subjective I suppose. I guess I haven’t seen one i. person, but for whatever the difference between $50 I paid for 6 heads vs what 6 heads of gold would cost..... I guess ignorance is bliss.

If your intention is to buy $1,000 corals and grow/frag/sell/repeat, that’s fine, but my suggestion to new hobbyists, is that if you aren’t running a frag tank etc, and running that completely separate system..... don’t sell. It’s not that you can’t grow nice corals etc in you DT, it’s that you’re robbing yourself of the nice display that you may otherwise have.

I wish I would have had my own advice...... some of my cheapest corals are my favorites...... stay off the hype train. The success is just as sweet, and the failures certainly don’t hit you as hard when it was a $10 frag.

This is somewhat similar to another post where people were trying to figure out the difference in dealer prices and fragger pricess.I know fraggers is probably not the word you folks use,sorry I'm old school but people who want to rub some pocket change out of the hobby and then get the idea maybe they can quite their jobs.WELL my advice is, don't quit your day job unless you can become a dealer and be ready for periods of slim or NO Sales and not always counting your hours or new arrivals for that matter.Problems happen with shipping and perishables all the time.You can win big on a shipment and then lose your bum on the next one. I love Xenia as much as a Bounce.I also like Bettas and Neon Tetras as much as a Zebra Pleco.Price shouldn't determine what you like if you are a true hobbyist.

If you want to make a living at it and this is truly your calling, then you will find that the inexpensive AKA common corals are what pays the bills.We call it Bread and Butter.One will sell more damsels and Clownfish then Purple Tangs and the price of the expensive higher priced items are high for a reason namely costs to import/risk and availability to name a few.
Patience is always the key.If something's HOT just wait because everyone will jump on it and price will meet the demand in the end.What sells today for $500 can sell in a few years or less for $50.
Just my view Folks.Take it with a grain of Saltwater.SORRY for any typos it's late and going blind even writing this.

 

[1stNoel]

In 15yrs taking to guys who setup frag shops in their basements.....with all things considered btwn equip, water changes, extra electricity, their time dealing with no-shows, dealing with ppl who kill their coral within 24hrs and want a full refund or get threatened with Small Claims Court, or get threatened that they are running a biz in a neighborhood that's zoned residential and they'll turn them into the local Commerce authorities...etc etc....

NONE OF THEM say it's worth their time and effort and investment money.

Up front costs on equip to setup in your basement will take at least 3yrs to break even

The only way to make money is with a VOLUME of sales thru online Vending....which is another migraine to deal with.

No money to speak of to sell corals out of your basement via Craigslist or Reef Clubs......And the ONLY reason they keep doing it is it MAY lhelp them buy consumables for their own DT.

Dont expect your checking account to double when/if you sell frags out of your basement. Its a breakeven biz at best unless you have phenomenal Marketing skills to take your biz waaaaay past selling locally

I understand the extra cost of electricity and supplements. but there's still money to be made in this hobby.

Three local vendors making pretty healthy money annually (some in the millions per year), Indo shut down, and the fact that I just enjoy growing coral, is enough incentive for me.

 

[Nanoreefer4ever]

Always buy from local reefer so you can see in person, avoid anything that has brand name in front of it. They are all heavy touched up pictures, and made up

 

[Albert Bazaar]

That's all one needs is incentive and like what they do.Very few Basement operations turn into millionaires.

 

[1stNoel]

That's all one needs is incentive and like what they do.Very few Basement operations turn into millionaires.

Agreed. It's about realistic side-hustle expectations. If it can pay off my car bill, recoup my initial investment, etc., then I'd be happy.

The goal is to leverage local LFSs and provide them with extra supply (not compete with them). They can deal with all the pain points previously mentioned.

 

[Albert Bazaar]

That is why many are either wholesale or retail.However,if your retail is out of State then usually they don't care.
Again a basic answer, some of them also do internet sales.these days business has become Blurred, not one situation
fits all.Carry on Noel and very best wishes to your ventures.I may be buying from you someday.

 

[Braves Fan]

I buy corals I like ,, I never ,, ever,, sell corals out of my tank ,, frags of my corals go to my friends that don't have that coral in their tank ,, most of my friends sell coral frags out of their tanks ,, but when they have a coral that I want ,, a frag of that coral is usely mine for the asking ,,

When it comes to the prices that are being charged by a lot of vendors now days ,, I buy what I can afford ,, with most vendors ,, you have to look deep into what they are offering ,, there are usely some nice corals that are priced reasonably ,, just leave the $300 frags alone ,,

 

[Tamberav]

I never buy anything with an intention of selling. I have a 15 dollar Duncan next to a 300 dollar torch. I purchased both because I liked them both. The Duncan actually took me longer to find because many people don't always keep these beginner corals anymore.

I don't like advertising or having strangers come to my house...it's an inconvenience to make a time then wait and hope they show up (not everyone will). I wouldn't mind shipping however since it is more convenient for me.

I don't like throwing away living animals either and have sent out boxes if free stuff in the mail to beginners and I plan to give more frags to friends...then if I have a crash..they can supply me frags again.

I also will probably start bringing stuff to the LFS for a small amount of credit.

My zoas are growing really fast now but thankfully I have a crab in my sump to feed them too. Waste northing!

 

[ZoWhat]

I understand the extra cost of electricity and supplements. but there's still money to be made in this hobby.

Are you going to file within the State you live in as a Business and pay State and Federal quarterly taxes. Any amount over $600 in sales you need to report and pay taxes.

If you dint, you'll eventually get busted.

Just sayin