Problem with angelfish

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.
 
Great thank you Humblefish! I actually have that same only the larger version of the HOB filter currently running on the QT with the 2 Blue Face Angels in it. Which brings up another question. To use this HOB filter I would need to transfer the 2 Blue Face Angels to the 75 gal. QT tank that I'm putting all the fish in if I want to use that filter. Would that be okay? And what about the FW dip? Should I do that or use the Cupramine once I get the fish into the 75?
 
Great thank you Humblefish! I actually have that same only the larger version of the HOB filter currently running on the QT with the 2 Blue Face Angels in it. Which brings up another question. To use this HOB filter I would need to transfer the 2 Blue Face Angels to the 75 gal. QT tank that I'm putting all the fish in if I want to use that filter. Would that be okay? And what about the FW dip? Should I do that or use the Cupramine once I get the fish into the 75?

I would not cross contaminate your 2 Blue Face, especially since you don't know for sure exactly what you are dealing with here.

I would do a FW dip on all the fish you are moving over just prior to putting them in QT. Just in case this is velvet. And then start ramping up the Cupramine.
 
So I caught the fish one at a time today and FW dipped them all for 4 minutes 30 seconds. I saw some tiny white specks come off the Annularis, but not much from the others. I did not see anything come from their gills. I put Cupramine in the tank yesterday and today when I put the fish in copper was 0.3. I have read many suggestions on copper level to use. Anywhere from 0.5 to 0.8. Also, all treatments say never to do multiple treatments at one time, but I was thinking about adding the Prazipro now. I have read many things saying this is okay to do. What do you suggest for copper level and double treatment?
 
So I caught the fish one at a time today and FW dipped them all for 4 minutes 30 seconds. I saw some tiny white specks come off the Annularis, but not much from the others. I did not see anything come from their gills. I put Cupramine in the tank yesterday and today when I put the fish in copper was 0.3. I have read many suggestions on copper level to use. Anywhere from 0.5 to 0.8. Also, all treatments say never to do multiple treatments at one time, but I was thinking about adding the Prazipro now. I have read many things saying this is okay to do. What do you suggest for copper level and double treatment?

I would keep the Cupramine at around 0.5 mg/L. It is still effective down to 0.35 mg/L, but keeping it at 0.5 gives you some wiggle room just in case.

You can mix Prazipro with Cupramine; I have done so many times. The only downside is the presence of copper diminishes prazi's effectiveness. But IME; it was still enough to get the job done.
 
Sounds good! So far so good. Now its a waiting game till the fish go back to the DT.
 
Sounds good! So far so good. Now its a waiting game till the fish go back to the DT.

I would also add prazi only when you're sure everyone is eating: may take a day or two leeway.

I keep cupramine at .55-.7 because I've found some strains of parasite can handle .5. 95% will probably be killed at .5 but I've kept very fragile ornamental fish, particularly angels in cupramine up to .8 without ANY negative effects. Just increase it gradually over several days and you should be fine should you choose to increase it.

Another reason I treat on the high range is because I want swings downward to still be in the effective range.
 
The Annularis was starting to look better and its breathing was not so fast, but today it looks like it will not last much longer. I have not added Prazipro and the copper level is at 0.6. I have attached a picture of what it looks like today. He will not make it through the day. Hopefully this picture will help pinpoint what the problem is as I still have other fish in the same tank that I do not want to loose. So far the others look fine.
 

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The Annularis was starting to look better and its breathing was not so fast, but today it looks like it will not last much longer. I have not added Prazipro and the copper level is at 0.6. I have attached a picture of what it looks like today. He will not make it through the day. Hopefully this picture will help pinpoint what the problem is as I still have other fish in the same tank that I do not want to loose. So far the others look fine.

I would pull him out of copper immediately. Not all fish can handle being exposed to copper; it's like your doc prescribing a medication and you are the 1 in a 100 that has an adverse reaction. While I have not personally experienced it, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that angels are notoriously copper sensitive. 0.6ppm is too high IMO anyway. I never exceed 0.5.
 
Well the quarantine was successful and its been a little over 2 weeks since I put all the fish into the DT. The DT was fallow for over 80 days. So far no sign of any parasites on the fish. There is one problem though. The queen angel has developed popeye within the last five or six days. I have read up on popeye and my water quality is good and the fish's eye does not look damaged, so I am wondering what the best course of action is here. Since the appearance of the popeye I have been using Selcon with frozen food for one feeding per day. I typically feed two to three times per day with pellets and/or frozen food. So far the popeye is unchanged. What else can I do?
 
This time its one eye, but this fish has had popeye before. About 1 1/2 years ago its right eye (left looking at picture) was popped out and it never did go all the way back in. So the one is popped slightly from before and the left eye popped out a lot several days ago.

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Poor fella. You can add antibiotics to his food using Focus to bind it. Kanaplex, furan-2 are examples. It's slow to act so start as soon as you can. It may be a good idea to run carbon if you dont already while doing this to take care of the small amount of meds that may bleed off the food into the water. You shouldn't have any problems with that if you run carbon though. Good luck!
 
Poor fella. You can add antibiotics to his food using Focus to bind it. Kanaplex, furan-2 are examples. It's slow to act so start as soon as you can. It may be a good idea to run carbon if you dont already while doing this to take care of the small amount of meds that may bleed off the food into the water. You shouldn't have any problems with that if you run carbon though. Good luck!

+1 Although erythromycin is the antibiotic of choice for an eye infection. Minocycline can be used in conjunction to widen the spectrum. Normally I'd agree about just soaking in food, but if he's already been like this for 5-6 days I would QT & treat. Dosing the antibiotics directly into the water provides faster relief than food soaking. I am concerned about him losing sight in one eye or even both. :( Kanaplex would probably be my second choice if erythromycin cannot be located.
 
I am having no luck with the antibiotic regime suggested. I have the Queen Angel in a 10 gal HT. At first the only antibiotic that was available at the LFS was the Erythromycin. I used this for the first treatment following the directions on the box, while I waited for the other antibiotics to be shipped to me. For the second treatment I used both Kanaplex and Minocycline, again following the directions on the box. At this point I have completed three treatments. The third treatment, using both Erythromycin and Minocycline, was completed yesterday. So far nothing is working. What else can I do to rid this fish of this Popeye?
 
Thank you for the links. I found the http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2009/01/streptococcus-eye-infections.html link most helpful. I did try the Furan 2 w/Kanamycin while I waited for the Methylene Blue. So far nothing has helped. The MB came yesterday and I did a dip with a higher strength MB w/Epsom Salts. When the dip was over I put drops of straight out of the bottle MB in both eyes and then put the fish in a HT with a light strength MB and am planning to leave him in this solution for a total of 7 days. I hope this helps. His eye looks nasty, other than that he is a very healthy fish. Thanks for the help!
 
I feel your pain. I am treating a Tomini for a Columnaris-like bacterial infection (pic below of his mouth). So far, nothing is working. I even got desperate enough to throw out my playbook and gave Paraguard a go. :eek: Thinking about trying Triple Sulfa next.

Bacterial infections are tricky because you have to find the right antibiotic that specifically targets the strain of bacterium the fish is being afflicted by. And even once you do, it can take up to 10 days of continuous treatment for the fish to show signs of improvement due to how slow acting antibiotics are in fish. :(

Sometimes I'd rather deal with velvet. More direct treatment process.

 
It's Odinium!!! You just need the copper treatment. Treat the whole tank and all the fish at a therapeutic level for 14 days.
 
So this has been going on entirely too long. The articles Humblefish suggested are very good, but I am having trouble finding the right antibiotic. I have tried pretty much everything and nothing seems to help. From what I have read I need an antibiotic that kills for anaerobic gram - negative bacteria. All the articles I have read suggest many for aerobic gram-negative, but not anaerobic. Can anyone suggest the strongest, most effective antibiotic that specifically fights anaerobic gram - negative bacteria??
 

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