problems with AFR, switching question

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

I've been dosing AFR but noticed my ALK keeps falling and CA keeps rising. I'm confident in the Hanna testers, given a recent ICP.

I am planning to switch to dosing Red Sea Part A (Ca) and Part B (Alk), any problems I would run into? I do a 15% weekly WC.

Thank you

 

[VintageReefer]

When do you test in comparison to the afr addition? The alk doesn’t show up right away

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

When do you test in comparison to the afr addition? The alk doesn’t show up right away

Yeah, I've been dosing for a while now. I'm tired of the drifting and having to manually dose ALK to have them match up.

I test right before the daily dose of AFR.

Last 5 days:

ALK 8.1, 7.8, 7.8, 7.8, 7.7
CA 429, x, 436, x, 462

AFR dose (day prior): 1, 1, 1.2, 1.2, 1.4

 

[VintageReefer]

Ok. Just checking

So it seems alk is staying fairly consistent but ca is rising.

Have you manually double checked ca after getting a high reading ? I feel their ca test is one of the more sensitive ones

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Ok. Just checking

So it seems alk is staying fairly consistent but ca is rising.

Have you manually double checked ca after getting a high reading ? I feel their ca test is one of the more sensitive ones

I should have added I was bumping up the AFR dose trying to get ALK to rise. I'm 99% confident in the CA tester. I use their deionized water and it works great

AFR dose (day prior): 100%, 100%, 120%, 120%, 140%

ALK 8.1, 7.8, 7.8, 7.8, 7.7
CA 429, x, 436, x, 462

 

[areefer01]

AFR dose (day prior): 100%, 100%, 120%, 120%, 140%

What is 100%, 120%, etc. Does that mean you are increasing the daily AFR amount?

If Ca is going up and Alk going down then reduce AFR dose and manually adjust Alk with the product of your choice.

This is what I've been doing recently after lowering my phosphates. Alk consumption has increased. I've verified it. Manually adjusted, and lowered AFR amount and it seemed to have worked. Just takes a bit of time especially since I am making small changes so not to upset anything.

As far as any problems I've not switched back to a two part so cannot really say. What I would probably do is calculate the daily dose using the new product, manually adjust Alk to my desired level, verify it, stop AFR dosing, and then bring on-line the new product. Knowing me I would probably reduce the dose a bit so I can assess before going to full or final dose. In either case you may need to manually correct until you get it dialed in.

 

[VintageReefer]

You don’t increase AFR to increase alk

It’s a maintenance product not a correction product

To make a correction you would continue normal dosing amount, increase alk manually with something like baking soda to correct level, measure the drop, and and adjust AFR dose based on the drop

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I should have added I was bumping up the AFR dose trying to get ALK to rise. I'm 99% confident in the CA tester. I use their deionized water and it works great

AFR dose (day prior): 100%, 100%, 120%, 120%, 140%

ALK 8.1, 7.8, 7.8, 7.8, 7.7
CA 429, x, 436, x, 462

Raising alk will raise calcium. Once you settle at a dose that gives stable alk, calcium will rise only very, very slowly. Your numbers do not reflect AFR effects, just test error in calcium.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I've been dosing AFR but noticed my ALK keeps falling and CA keeps rising. I'm confident in the Hanna testers, given a recent ICP.

I am planning to switch to dosing Red Sea Part A (Ca) and Part B (Alk), any problems I would run into? I do a 15% weekly WC.

Thank you

If you're otherwise happy with AFR I would not change.

I'm reasonably certain that if you dose to keep Alk consistent the Calcium will also stabilise.

The current Calcium levels are nothing to be concerned about.

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

You don’t increase AFR to increase alk

It’s a maintenance product not a correction product

To make a correction you would continue normal dosing amount, increase alk manually with something like baking soda to correct level, measure the drop, and and adjust AFR dose based on the drop

I don't want to dose ALK manually every few days, to reset back to my baseline targets.

I have a 2 head doser and can dose ALK and CA independently. The great thing about the Red Sea part A, B, and C is its instant too. Right after I dosed ALK I took a reading and am now at 8.1 dKH.

I guess my main question is I'll be missing out on the other stuff in AFR, but the 15% weekly water changes should made that fine, right? I can dose Mg as needed.

Thanks for all your replies!

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Raising alk will raise calcium. Once you settle at a dose that gives stable alk, calcium will rise only very, very slowly. Your numbers do not reflect AFR effects, just test error in calcium.

But the ALK isn't rising with big increases in AFR dose. I don't believe my CA measurement is wrong.

Would a UV somehow impact AFR?

 

[VintageReefer]

I don't want to dose ALK manually every few days, to reset back to my baseline targets.

I have a 2 head doser and can dose ALK and CA independently. The great thing about the Red Sea part A, B, and C is its instant too. Right after I dosed ALK I took a reading and am now at 8.1 dKH.

I guess my main question is I'll be missing out on the other stuff in AFR, but the 15% weekly water changes should made that fine, right? I can dose Mg as needed.

Thanks for all your replies!

You just dose alk manually to do the correction and figure out the new AFR dosage. It sounds to me like you might need to redo this process as if you were just starting afr

I only have to manually correct every few months

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I don't want to dose ALK manually every few days, to reset back to my baseline targets.

I have a 2 head doser and can dose ALK and CA independently. The great thing about the Red Sea part A, B, and C is its instant too. Right after I dosed ALK I took a reading and am now at 8.1 dKH.

I guess my main question is I'll be missing out on the other stuff in AFR, but the 15% weekly water changes should made that fine, right? I can dose Mg as needed.

Thanks for all your replies!

That won’t be needed. Like kalkwasser, AFR is only very slightly overstuffed with calcium. Water changes will likely keep it under control.

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Maybe because I have a nano but I can't set it and forget it using AFR. My baselines targets are what my salt uses
Last week ALK trended down while CA trended up, I dosed ALK on 7/4
Same story this week

 

[gbroadbridge]

I have been using AFR for my Evo 13.5 gallon Nano for almost 3 years.
Mixed reef.

I dose for to maintain Alk - currently around 25 ml per day on a doser.

Alk stays close to 8.0 (Salifert), Calcium settled down around 520ppm (Hanna) which is fine.
The Hanna number is correct as it's been confirmed by ICP.

 

[sharkbait-uhaha]

from my understanding is that you FIRST get all parameters where you want them THEN use AFR to maintain them there

I don't want to dose ALK manually every few days, to reset back to my baseline targets.

I have a 2 head doser and can dose ALK and CA independently. The great thing about the Red Sea part A, B, and C is its instant too. Right after I dosed ALK I took a reading and am now at 8.1 dKH.

I guess my main question is I'll be missing out on the other stuff in AFR, but the 15% weekly water changes should made that fine, right? I can dose Mg as needed.

Thanks for all your replies!

 

[DanyL]

Aside from personally not trusting the results from the Hanna Calcium checker, my next best guess is that you might not have enough nutrients to support the organic process Calcium Formate requires to make Alkalinity available in the water.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

That won’t be needed. Like kalkwasser, AFR is only very slightly overstuffed with calcium. Water changes will likely keep it under control.

Hi Randy, can you take a moment and explain. I use AFR on my 110 gallon total system mixed reef. I dose so my magnesium and calcium are stable 18 ml per day but my alk always falls and I adjust with BRS 2 part. Am I understand that I need to dose AFR to alk and everything else will stabilize?. I know you don't like measuring mag. Just hoping to understand better.

Steve

Ps salufert test kits

Target
1.025
Mag 1424
Alk 9-10
Cal 420-450

30 gallon water charge every two weeks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Maybe because I have a nano but I can't set it and forget it using AFR. My baselines targets are what my salt uses
Last week ALK trended down while CA trended up, I dosed ALK on 7/4
Same story this week

that is not an AFR or small tank effect. Some things may happen faster, but that does not make everything possible. They will not move rapidly in opposite directions. That’s a testing error problem.

Your alk seems perfectly stable and the calcium deviation is not any problem, whether real or not.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi Randy, can you take a moment and explain. I use AFR on my 110 gallon total system mixed reef. I dose so my magnesium and calcium are stable 18 ml per day but my alk always falls and I adjust with BRS 2 part. Am I understand that I need to dose AFR to alk and everything else will stabilize?. I know you don't like measuring mag. Just hoping to understand better.

Steve

Ps salufert test kits

Target
1.025
Mag 1424
Alk 9-10
Cal 420-450

30 gallon water charge every two weeks

AFR is designed with an alk to calcium ratio identical to kalkwasser, which adds a tiny bit more calcium than alk. You will not detect it day to day, but long term, maintaining calcium will typically allow alk to decline, and maintaining alk (my recommendation) will allow a very slow calcium rise. Water changes are often enough to keep calcium fine (it did for me with kalkwasser) but if you use a high calcium much to begin with it will trend up.

It is fine to use a little alk aside from AFR to stabilize things, if water changes alone do not keep it where you want.

Fwiw, calcium is fine at any values between 400 and 550 ppm.

I haven’t looked into the amount of magnesium in AFR or how to use RMM with it, but it should not be hard to implement.