problems with AFR, switching question

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

To come full circle, after dosing 7 part for ~2 months with a 2 head doser I am switching back to AFR with the new tank upgrade. Going to try AFR to maintain calcium, magnesium, and trace and will dose alkalinity when needed. Will use a mix of ICP and Hanna for dosing amount.

Any particular reason for the switch, or just to see if it has an effect?

 

[dr_vinnie_boombatz]

Any particular reason for the switch, or just to see if it has an effect?

It was alot of work to dose the other 5 parts manually every few days. I found the recommended dosing weights RS recommended caused drift anyways.

 

[MiZuboov]

If I switch my UV off the Kh jumps to 8.5 in a week.

So interesting! What do you think, why it happens?

 

[rishma]

It’s an older thread but caught my attention. I was having the same issue for a long time. Then someone pointed out that the Hanna checker alk reagent goes bad after a while. I tried a new bottle and my Alk was sky high. I now keep my Alk reagent in the refrigerator and no more issues.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So interesting! What do you think, why it happens?

I don’t believe it is a general result.

 

[Reefahholic]

It’s a maintenance product not a correction product

AFR is a newbie product. Every noob from here to New York truly believes AFR is magic unicorn urine.

 

[Reefahholic]

They just fail to understand one thing…

 

[areefer01]

AFR is a newbie product. Every noob from here to New York truly believes AFR is magic unicorn urine.

So you are saying half of the US (Houston, Tx as you referenced here) to New York believe only newbs use the product or that it is magical? Wow you just alienated half the US and anyone who uses the product.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

 

[VintageReefer]

I know a lot of people with high end tanks that use it successfully

 

[thedon986]

AFR is a newbie product. Every noob from here to New York truly believes AFR is magic unicorn urine.

I guess I’m a noob. I’ve only had reef tanks since 2010

 

[Reefahholic]

How many of you can say you use only AFR and it balances the tank where no additional products are needed?

There is no “one size fits all” with reef tanks. It’s not just AFR. Any AIO 2-Part.

We all have different biomass, coral species, and many other factors that influence consumption or the lack of. Trying to dose a “predetermined ratio” that a company puts in a bottle never works.

 

[Reefahholic]

It’s always the same. I’ve linked that video of Lou before, but the brain washing is real. These are not my words. Take it from Lou.

Go listen to the video again. Maybe try to replay it multiple times, and listen closely. You may get a break though. lol

 

[Reefahholic]

I couldn’t have said it better myself!

Read it carefully….


Lou:

“The answer to that is that there is one thing that you give up when you start putting things in one solution, and that is that ability to “tweak” the amount of each one that goes in. When you put in AFR, you’re putting in the ratio of Ca, KH, Mg, and Trace Elements…that “WE” put in the bottle, and if you want to INCREASE one of those, you gotta add some “OTHER PRODUCT.” if you wanna “DECREASE” one of those “THERE’S NO WAY TO DO IT, because you’re adding it and “OUR” proportions.”

 

[areefer01]

There is no “one size fits all” with reef tanks. It’s not just AFR. Any AIO 2-Part.

Who said it was a one size fits all product? Even the manufacture says there are different tools, products, to use. Hobbyist have choices. It sounds like it isn't a product for you. That is fine - just not sure I'd alienate those who use it or call them newbs. That is just mean.

We all have different biomass, coral species, and many other factors that influence consumption or the lack of. Trying to dose a “predetermined ratio” that a company puts in a bottle never works.

In your opinion. Yet there are hobbyist and maintenance companies who use it. Not sure why you would care.

I couldn’t have said it better myself!

Read it carefully….


Lou:

“The answer to that is that there is one thing that you give up when you start putting things in one solution, and that is that ability to “tweak” the amount of each one that goes in. When you put in AFR, you’re putting in the ratio of Ca, KH, Mg, and Trace Elements…that “WE” put in the bottle, and if you want to INCREASE one of those, you gotta add some “OTHER PRODUCT.” if you wanna “DECREASE” one of those “THERE’S NO WAY TO DO IT, because you’re adding it and “OUR” proportions.”

Actually if you want to waste some time watch the infomercial below. Lou actually gives you a product use scenario for their products. 2 part, balling, why you may want to do one over the other, and of course AFR which is a single solution. In the video he notes one of the drawbacks of using a single solution is you can't really adjust it to compensate a low trace element situation. Again as stated by Lou at Tropic Marin - so no magic fairy dust or hidden agenda.

 

[Reefahholic]

Even the manufacture says there are different tools, products, to use. Hobbyist have choices.

They had too deviate when they realized that people were catching on, and too many problems were arising with traces running out of control as ICP testing was becoming more popular. Initially, they marketed that product like it was all you needed to balance your reef perfectly. That was simply misleading. I would say many reefers still believe that right now, but I’m not surprised as they have a huge marketing team that is very good.

It sounds like it isn't a product for you

Most definitely not a product for me.

 

[Reefahholic]

Actually if you want to waste some time watch the infomercial below. Lou actually gives you a product use scenario for their products. 2 part, balling, why you may want to do one over the other, and of course AFR which is a single solution.

The brain washing is real! It always goes back to Lou’s live streams. You got…got. That guy is an excellent persuasive talker.

 

[areefer01]

They had too deviate when they realized that people were catching on, and too many problems were arising with traces running out of control as ICP testing was becoming more popular. Initially, they marketed that product like it was all you needed to balance your reef perfectly. That was simply misleading. I would say many reefers still believe that right now, but I’m not surprised as they have a huge marketing team that is very good.

In your opinion. I believe you are a moonshiner, no? This is why the product isn't for you. My advise is stay in your lane.

Most definitely not a product for me.

As a fellow hobbyist I don't see a problem. The only one I saw is you calling users newbies or chasing unicorns. You should know better.

 

[Reefahholic]

I’m just giving you a hard time. I’ll stop!

I don’t have a lane. It’s called free speech. I call it like I see it. I’m not being paid by anyone, don’t take sponsorships, and will never become a slave to this industry.

Regardless of what I use to supplement my reef…facts are facts. Video is powerful and that’s Lou’s own words not mine, so don’t get mad at me. He said it. Sorry that you got hurt about truth. Don’t let my opinions sway you. They’re just my personal opinions, but I do think the majority of reefers using AFR are noobs. Yes, maybe like 20% aren’t. Some people are lazy and can’t resist the draw of AIO products.

I really hate AIO products, because they all lack control and bioavailability. Too many variables when you start mixing a lot of traces into one bottle.

For young systems that aren’t growing well yet (this probably accounts for the majority of reefers using AFR), it really messes things up. The consumption isn’t there yet, and many traces run wild.

For systems that are seeing good active growth… you need to supplement other products to keep up with demand. For me…this would never be an ideal product.

But yeah…if you enjoy using multiple products, dealing with overdosing, or the depletion of many elements then AFR may be a great product for you.

 

[Shooter6]

I couldn’t have said it better myself!

Read it carefully….


Lou:

“The answer to that is that there is one thing that you give up when you start putting things in one solution, and that is that ability to “tweak” the amount of each one that goes in. When you put in AFR, you’re putting in the ratio of Ca, KH, Mg, and Trace Elements…that “WE” put in the bottle, and if you want to INCREASE one of those, you gotta add some “OTHER PRODUCT.” if you wanna “DECREASE” one of those “THERE’S NO WAY TO DO IT, because you’re adding it and “OUR” proportions.”

All your hate and negative feelings are a waste of energy and reading. Afr, calcium reactor, 3 part (no such thing as 2 part) kalkwasser ect will require some tweaks. With afr water changes accomplish the necessary tweaks for the vast majority of users.

Now I'm about to trigger a few who are going to waste time "correcting" my following statement.

In MY opinion afr is the closest product available in a bottle or package that to a point mimics a calcium reactor. I used afr supplemented with kalk on a fully stocked 95%sps reef without issue. ( almost no water changes either.)

If you don't like it, don't use it. Life gets real simple when you quite hating on things in the hobby you don't use....

 

[areefer01]

I’m just giving you a hard time. I’ll stop!

I don’t have a lane. It’s called free speech. I call it like I see it. I’m not being paid by anyone, don’t take sponsorships, and will never become a slave to this industry.

Regardless of what I use to supplement my reef…facts are facts. Video is powerful and that’s Lou’s own words not mine, so don’t get mad at me. He said it. Sorry that you got hurt about truth. Don’t let my opinions sway you. They’re just my personal opinions, but I do think the majority of reefers using AFR are noobs. Yes, maybe like 20% aren’t. Some people are lazy and can’t resist the draw of AIO products.

I really hate AIO products, because they all lack control and bioavailability. Too many variables when you start mixing a lot of traces into one bottle.

For young systems that aren’t growing well yet (this probably accounts for the majority of reefers using AFR), it really messes things up. The consumption isn’t there yet, and many traces run wild.

For systems that are seeing good active growth… you need to supplement other products to keep up with demand. For me…this would never be an ideal product.

But yeah…if you enjoy using multiple products, dealing with overdosing, or the depletion of many elements then AFR may be a great product for you.

So...I wouldn't be a newbie if I used Moonshiners.