Propagating Cyanobacteria, Dinoflagellates and GHA

[sixty_reefer]

In this thread I will attempt to propagate a few of the most common pests in the hobby the goal is to try and learn what this species really need to thrive.

In part one of the this trial I am boosting all vessel with organic nutrients only two vessels contain inorganic nutrients. The goal for this trial is to observe if any of the nuisance can utilise the organic nutrients.

Vessel 1
Fresh salt mix plus

Vessel 2
Tank water plus Cyanobacteria and GHA

Vessel 3
Tank water plus GHA

Vessel 4
Fresh salt mix plus GHA clump

Vessel 5
Fresh salt mix plus tank sand

Vessel 6
Fresh salt mix plus Cyanobacteria and GHA

• All vessel have been added 1 ml of organic nutrients NPK plus minerals

• Vessel with fresh salt mix have zero nitrates and phosphates

• Vessel containing tank water have 5 Nitrates and 0.8 phosphates water was sourced from a mature thank in a local LFS

• All vessel will be located in a window seal to catch natural light as all nuisance are photosynthetic.

 

[Jmp998]

Interesting idea. Are you planning to maintain the initial phosphate and nitrate levels via periodic addition? My understanding is the amount dissolved in water (without addition of any food, substrate, etc) is very little and may be quickly depleted if the algae are growing. Perhaps worth checking with a test kit if algae does not perform as expected?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Interesting idea. Are you planning to maintain the initial phosphate and nitrate levels via periodic addition? My understanding is the amount dissolved in water (without addition of any food, substrate, etc) is very little and may be quickly depleted if the algae are growing. Perhaps worth checking with a test kit if algae does not perform as expected?

On this initial trial I wasn’t intending to add more nutrients I’m hopping to get results in no more than 7 days.
This initial test is to observe if organic nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus have any effect on this nuisances, I believe that in a situation where a tank gets depleted from phosphates and nitrates there will be still plenty of organic nutrients for this nuisances to bloom, this test aims to replicate that as 3 vessel don’t contain any inorganic nutrients just organic in a amount enough to sustain a phytoplankton culture. Therefore if any of this 3 nuisances were to be able to use organics a answer should come to light during the next 7 days.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Day 0 for further reference

vessel 6

vessel 5

Vessel 4

Vessel 3

Vessel 2

Vessel 1

 

[sixty_reefer]

Not much happening during the dark period, curious to see if any changes happening by the time I get back home later today.

 

[sixty_reefer]

day one is almost coming to a end, it’s evening here and the sun is almost gone.

observations in day one

Cyanobacteria started forming mats and gas bubbles on both vessels this will lead me to believe that Cyanobacteria can in fact utilise organic nutrients as in my original theory, more days will be needed to verify this. it seems that I will have plenty of Cyanobacteria in the coming days.

both Cyanobacteria vessels only had small Cyanobacteria flakes yesterday.

 

[pledosophy]

If 20 years experience on forums has taught me anything it is that to culture each of those you need perfect water parameters.... at least that is what everyone says. LOL!

Very interesting idea. Happy to follow along.

 

[sixty_reefer]

If 20 years experience on forums has taught me anything it is that to culture each of those you need perfect water parameters.... at least that is what everyone says. LOL!

Very interesting idea. Happy to follow along.

That’s what I’m hearing also, can’t get better parameters than zero phosphates and zero nitrates

on a serious note this trial at propagating this nuisances should illustrate That there is more to nutrient than just nitrates and phosphates.
if able to propagate this nuisances, I will also attempt at eradicate some of them by manipulating some of the nutrients only.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Now with artificial light to mimic a aquarium

 

[sixty_reefer]

Culturing these 3 species it’s not as easy as I thought, I may have encountered my first bump on the road.
I believe that the cultures may be limited in temperature or carbon dioxide, they growing just not in the amount I was looking for, looking at connecting a air pump to all cultures later on.

 

[sixty_reefer]

How it started

6 days later

 

[sixty_reefer]

My observation so far:

1• it seems that all common nuisances are dependent on the availability of nutrients, minerals and carbon dioxide. having zero detectable inorganic nutrients doesn’t mean much as this species can utilise nutrients that we can’t test for and are always available.

2• nuisances need to be introduced, note that control doesn’t have anything growing in that vessel and it’s still spotless.

3• nutrient understanding and nutrient management will always be the most effective way to avoid ugly stage and undesirable nuisances to prevail in a enclosed saltwater aquarium.

4• ammonia may be a contributing factor for this species to develop, more testing on the subject will have to be done.

just a few observations of mine, will take the test for a few more days to observe second phase

 

[Aqua Man]

2• nuisances need to be introduced, note that control doesn’t have anything growing in that vessel and it’s still spotless.

Totally agree that algae is a hitchhiker!! One of my setups did not grow algae until I added a couple fish and frags.

4• ammonia may be a contributing factor for this species to develop, more testing on the subject will have to be done.

Was interesting to see that the algae started to grow on the glass in the area where the fish hung out.

Are your vessels closed tightly? Doesn’t everything need O2 and or CO2 to live? Except some bacteria species.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Are your vessels closed tightly? Doesn’t everything need O2 and or CO2 to live? Except some bacteria species.

co2 seems to be more important for photosynthesis. Only a quick experiment and ph wasn’t monitored unfortunately

on the first 2 days the cap was just placed on the vessel day one there was a small increase im photosynthetic organisms and second day was a slight decrease.

I can only assume that the co2 in the vessel was used to max and on day 2 the co2 was depleted for photosynthesis to happen.

day 3 I’ve added a air line in all vessels to aid gas exchange (only small pump) there was a improvement in all vessels from day 4 onwards.

end of day 4 I’ve added ammonia to all vessels and the green micro algae bloomed to all the vessels surfaces by day 5 and 6.

today I’ve dosed a source of carbon that is slow releasing, to see if I can change the nutrient competition from photosynthetic nuisances to desirable bacteria.

overhaul there is a mix of species in each vessel and no one specie was blooming by the exception of the vessel 3 containing golden algae that seemed to be dominant.

 

[Rennurdoar]

Any updates on this?

 

[TokenReefer]

I really need to dig more; had no idea you were doing this. Great experiment. Yes, any updates?

 

[Subsea]

@sixty_reefer
With respect to organic nutrients, what & how do you dose them.

This experiment is much more complex than you started with. Bacteria populations in water column are part of the organic nutrients you can’t measure without advanced lab test. Using sunlight as the same light source and the same air pump eliminates many potential errors. Good fortune on your experiment.

@Dana Riddle articles at Advanced Aquaria on coral nutrition said it this way about carbon dioxide: “photosynthesis is where the inorganic & the organic world come together”.

Because carbon dioxide gas is very soluble in water which then builds alkalinity that when combined with photosynthesis forms glucose, which is organic carbon.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Any updates on this?

Since my last update I kinda left everything be, I’ve just dismantled everything before Xmas, the bottles were so full of nasty stuff that it started sending a bad smell to the house. No pictures as I kinda lost enthusiast.

My final observation was.

1• small containers are not the best for nutrient experiments

2• every nutrient will be redirected into mass if not exported

3• micro algaes are more effective at taking nutrients Vs macro algaes

it’s nothing crazy in therms of results although it just brings more clue’s on how nutrients are being used around the system

 

[sixty_reefer]

@sixty_reefer
With respect to organic nutrients, what & how do you dose them.

I was using a fertiliser for planted tanks that is mainly organic, from talks with another reefer that is well versed in the subject it’s thought that the main source will be urea possible some amino acids also.
Today I’m experimenting with other sources of organic nutrients to improve some aquaria aspects.

This experiment is much more complex than you started with. Bacteria populations in water column are part of the organic nutrients you can’t measure without advanced lab test. Using sunlight as the same light source and the same air pump eliminates many potential errors. Good fortune on your experiment.

I agree is way to complex for me to be able to understand how everything is working, a interesting observation is that the bottles that didn’t had any cycled media or water still done pretty well at growing nuisances.

@Dana Riddle articles at Advanced Aquaria on coral nutrition said it this way about carbon dioxide: “photosynthesis is where the inorganic & the organic world come together”.

Because carbon dioxide gas is very soluble in water which then builds alkalinity that when combined with photosynthesis forms glucose, which is organic carbon.

This is very true, many algae’s release carbohydrates into the water column as they melt, this is fairly common with caleurpa and normally referred to as going asexual in the hobby hence the heterotrophic bacterial bloom. It’s also observed in phytoplankton blooms

 

[TokenReefer]

It's too bad I came across this so late I would have rooted you on a bit Gleaned something from it nonetheless. If I had more space I'd join in these types of things (looking around my small place).

I like the initial premise of isolating each in respective containers. Since dinos dominate the forums, I'm very interested in what it takes to biologically outcompete them. I think this had great legs to flesh some of that out. If you ever get the hankering to try again...I'm all in