Propagating Cyanobacteria, Dinoflagellates and GHA

[sixty_reefer]

The next challenge will be to try and gain enough evidence or illustrate that ammonia is the biggest nutrient being constantly released by organic nutrient wile scattered in a system. Still considering what’s the best way to go. For many folks this will sound silly as it’s a basic rule for decomposition.

 

[TokenReefer]

Would testing for it be a challenge? Would this be in a sterile environment or with other competitors/producers?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Would testing for it be a challenge? Would this be in a sterile environment or with other competitors/producers?

In a sterile environment it would be to easy and not debatable. A good example is cycling a system with a prawn, it will release ammonia for the entire time that the prawn is in contact with the water column. I believe I may have to do the same with frozen food and pellet food to illustrate the event. The challenge would occur in a running reef, the event that causes ammonia to rise is to complex and I don’t have the tools to detect ammonia effectively during such a test.

 

[TokenReefer]

Well I can think of one such device on the hobby market .... Probably not worth the investment however.

I was under the impression ammonia was being released the entire time as the first part the nitrification cycle. Is it thought that it isn't? Detectable or not...

 

[ReeferHD]

Following

 

[sixty_reefer]

I was under the impression ammonia was being released the entire time as the first part the nitrification cycle. Is it thought that it isn't? Detectable or not...

no, the problem here is that is thought that nitrifying bacteria is the sole responsible organism for oxidising ammonia.

 

[TokenReefer]

no, the problem here is that is thought that nitrifying bacteria is the sole responsible organism for oxidising ammonia.

What's your hypothesis/theory as to the other player(s) in that?

 

[sixty_reefer]

What's your hypothesis/theory as to the other player(s) in that?

this is my current thoughts on the organic matter path in our system, note that ammonia is not always bad if used correctly it will aid also coral growth, it’s important to note that nutrients alway end in a organism and depending on availability and limitations the paths will change and make every system different.

and my current thoughts on heterotrophic bacteria limitation, to me I see them as I triangle and there limitations or abundance can change the ammonia availability in our systems. In this example if organic carbon is doubled that will translate to double of the phosphate and double of the nitrates being used from the water column, the increase in organic carbon will also affect decomposition as that will stimulate heterotrophic bacteria at reducing organic matter and organic nutrient faster resulting in less exposure to the water column and by effect reducing overall ammonia in a system.

I chose 8:4:1 at random, the absolute number is not important. Everything in nature requires higher value of carbon to a medium nitrogen and a lower phosphorus.

Understanding nutrient limitations

This article is the way I see nutrient limitations that impact many aquariums in the hobby, understanding limitations could be helpful for better residual management

www.reef2reef.com

 

[TokenReefer]

Ok. So essentially, in the context of your new proposed prawn experiment above, you theorize that not only are bacteria directly using the Ammonia, but also photosynthetic organisms. Is that right?

Fwiw I think I'm on board with direct uptake but it would be great for it to be proven, hard as it may be. Still have lots of reading to do... Thanks

 

[sixty_reefer]

Ok. So essentially, in the context of your new proposed prawn experiment above, you theorize that not only are bacteria directly using the Ammonia, but also photosynthetic organisms. Is that right?

Fwiw I think I'm on board with direct uptake but it would be great for it to be proven, hard as it may be. Still have lots of reading to do... Thanks

Many aquarists know this path to be true, only chemotrophs (nitrifying bacteria) and phototrophic organisms (algae and coral) can uptake ammonia directly. Heterotrophic organism can only reduce ammonia by reducing organic matter and organic nutrients and they can do their work more efficiently if stimulated with extra organic carbon and wend limited by one or more macro nutrients they will allow organic nutrients to build up and by effect allowing more ammonia to be available, this is my belief to explain dinoflagellates blooms once nitrates or phosphates are depleted. I will soon re start another experiment that will combine all the knowledge I’ve gathered so far at a larger scale.

72h cycle and avoiding the ugly stage

Some of you may have noticed that of late I have been fairly interested in nutrients and nutrition and how all this affect our systems, in this thread I will be attempting to cycle a system in 72 hours or less and demonstrate how the understanding of nutrients can avoid the ugly stage all...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[TokenReefer]

Many aquarists know this path to be true, only chemotrophs (nitrifying bacteria) and phototrophic organisms (algae and coral) can uptake ammonia directly. Heterotrophic organism can only reduce ammonia by reducing organic matter and organic nutrients and they can do their work more efficiently if stimulated with extra organic carbon and wend limited by one or more macro nutrients they will allow organic nutrients to build up and by effect allowing more ammonia to be available, this is my belief to explain dinoflagellates blooms once nitrates or phosphates are depleted. I will soon re start another experiment that will combine all the knowledge I’ve gathered so far at a larger scale.

72h cycle and avoiding the ugly stage

Some of you may have noticed that of late I have been fairly interested in nutrients and nutrition and how all this affect our systems, in this thread I will be attempting to cycle a system in 72 hours or less and demonstrate how the understanding of nutrients can avoid the ugly stage all...

www.reef2reef.com

Ya know this just clicked in my head; I apologize but I have some lag in my understanding at times. This is a great hypothesis for dino blooms and one that I've been looking for to tie them to nutrient deficiency (in my own understanding) until you just now stated it (probably for the millionth time). Sometimes it just doesn't click, until it does. Thanks.

I'm very curious now. Watching this thread

 

[sixty_reefer]

Ya know this just clicked in my head; I apologize but I have some lag in my understanding at times. This is a great hypothesis for dino blooms and one that I've been looking for to tie them to nutrient deficiency (in my own understanding) until you just now stated it (probably for the millionth time). Sometimes it just doesn't click, until it does. Thanks.

I'm very curious now. Watching this thread

Thank you, I believe this hypothesis to be able to explain all photosynthetic nuisances in our systems and also explain why not all get dinoflagellates in low nutrients conditions and why some get them in higher nutrients conditions.
Hopefully the next test will bring more light into the subject