Proper alk for ULN tank?

I aim for about 8.5 and am trying to run the Aquaforest system, which has very low nitrate/phosphate and a focus on aminos and proper foods and trace elements. Too early in to swear by it but the photos I see are spectacular.
 
Ok so if you are feeding multiple fish multiple times per day (frozen, nori, pellets, etc) then I see no problem with having low N/P. That’s exactly my point. If your corals are becoming more and more pale until they are white or peeling from the bottom up then I don’t think it matters what your N/P are. I think those are numbers that people get too hung up on. Feed your tank well and match your export levels so you don’t have a buildup of harmful waste products and most likely you will find success. A well fed reef is far better than a starved one.

What about the alkalinity testing and dosing?
I dose alk, but think my problem was due to alk creeping up (like 8.5 or 8.7dkh) with undetectable N and P, that is why i am having this thread. My acros did not STN from the bottom but i got burned tips that kept spreading lower. That is why i think alk has something to do with it. I know people can have successful tanks with undetectable N and P, but WHAT ALK do they run?
 
I aim for about 8.5 and am trying to run the Aquaforest system, which has very low nitrate/phosphate and a focus on aminos and proper foods and trace elements. Too early in to swear by it but the photos I see are spectacular.
"Low" is a very general term i think. When i say low N that means undetectable (totally clear) on Salifert. I read when you try to target a certain alk, zero nitrates is quite different compared to like Nitrates of 2 ppm.
 
First off I want to say I’m sorry about your coral losses, that’s always tough and hard to get over. My tank naturally runs on the lower N/P range but like I mentioned before, I feed quite a bit throughout the day to make sure there is always food/nutrition available to my inhabitants. I tend to keep my Alk between 7.3-7.5. I like that range because it gives me some wiggle room between too high or too low. However I strongly believe stability is key. I really don’t like to have my alkalinity levels swing throughout the day and I try to minimize this as best as possible. Did you ever get around to testing your Alk a few times throughout the day? And have your split your dosing evenly throughout the day as well?
thanks for the kind words. I dose alk during the day when consumption is high. FWIW i dose Soda Ash but only like 12 ml a day split over like 4 or 5 times. I have stopped dosing for several days as i am letting alk slide a bit, it was 8 like a few days ago today it was 7.3dkh (using Hanna).
 
This is a complicated question, and then again, it is not...

The easy answer is that alk near 7.0 works for all tanks.

The complicated answer is that residual levels on a test kit do not tell you anything about what the corals are actually getting. I have low residual levels of about .1-.2 N (need ICP to detect) and .005-.01 P (1-3 ppb on Hannah Ultra low), but I feed a ton, have lots of ammonia/ammonium and all kinds of phosphate/phosphorous/inorganic/organic/etc that corals can use (photos in my re-build thread). Availability is the prize over residual levels which are fools gold in most cases. Do you feed a lot? If you do feed a lot, then your tank is far from ULN, even if you export a lot too... it is just a natural type of tank that needs no label. To me, you need to be driving AVAILABLE and RESIDUAL building blocks below natural levels with media or chemicals to truly be ULN - I have not really seen anybody do this for quite some time since it does not usually work out well. Zeo, and a few other methods, are coined as ULN, but they are far from it with TONs of available building blocks and people parroting the UNL monicker without digging deeper.

You only really need to worry about burnt tips if available amounts of N and P are so low that you limit organic tissue creation. This is a problem because with low residual levels of N and P really makes calcification hum/fast and the skeleton can outgrow the tissue and push right through the tissue. High availability of N and P can keep the tissue growing regardless of residual levels. This is why cutting back on feedings is never a good idea.

If you want to simplify, keep feeding a good amount, let the residuals stay where they may (find a level that you like and works) and keep the alk at 7.0.
Thanks, i understand that we are testing residual N and P. But with my export methods (non zeovit) my P could be like 3ppb of Hanna ULR Phosphorous! I feed a lot too but my fear is that if i do not feed the tank for a certain day or two due to any reason i will be like riding the edge (with very low ammonia and nutrients and high alk). That is why i am considering shooting for 7 dkh although that needs to be monitored a lot until i have it tuned in correctly.
 
When you dosed N and had SPS issues, where you monitoring PO4? PO4 bottoming out would explain your upset SPS back then.
I found when finding my daily N&P dosing levels it took a couple weeks for things to become happy. I just bit the bullet and carried on.

When running 2-5/0.03-0.06 I like my Alk to be 7.5-8.0 and target 7.7 with 415 Ca 1350 Mag
I feel running 7.0 is a risk as it can drop below ideal levels quickly and gives less pH buffering
 
I dose alk, but think my problem was due to alk creeping up (like 8.5 or 8.7dkh) with undetectable N and P, that is why i am having this thread. My acros did not STN from the bottom but i got burned tips that kept spreading lower. That is why i think alk has something to do with it. I know people can have successful tanks with undetectable N and P, but WHAT ALK do they run?

"Low" is a very general term i think. When i say low N that means undetectable (totally clear) on Salifert. I read when you try to target a certain alk, zero nitrates is quite different compared to like Nitrates of 2 ppm.

thanks for the kind words. I dose alk during the day when consumption is high. FWIW i dose Soda Ash but only like 12 ml a day split over like 4 or 5 times. I have stopped dosing for several days as i am letting alk slide a bit, it was 8 like a few days ago today it was 7.3dkh (using Hanna).

Thanks, i understand that we are testing residual N and P. But with my export methods (non zeovit) my P could be like 3ppb of Hanna ULR Phosphorous! I feed a lot too but my fear is that if i do not feed the tank for a certain day or two due to any reason i will be like riding the edge (with very low ammonia and nutrients and high alk). That is why i am considering shooting for 7 dkh although that needs to be monitored a lot until i have it tuned in correctly.

This is a video of the tank before my SPS had issues
This is my best suggestion to you. Run your Alk between 7-7.5. Natural Seawater Levels is king in my opinion. There are multiple ways to run a reef but in my experience the closer you are to the way the ocean is the better. Also for alkalinity once it falls to the desired range, dose evenly throughout the day. If you need 4 mL, dose 1 mL every 6 hours. If it’s 12 mL dose 1mL every other hour. Just keep the alkalinity stable the best you can. As for feeding, get yourself a feeding ring to make sure your pellets don’t get swept into the overflow and set the feeder to 4 times per day with two rotations each. You should never have to worry about your tank starving that way. Based off your video you are definitely not starving anything with the large fish and the way that gorgonian looked. Plus the algae on the rocks. I don’t think you will be riding the line that way. Also I would argue that 0ppm or 2ppm nitrate will be no different if it all comes from feeding vs dosing. Just run your alkalinity near NSW levels (7-7.5) and you will do well. That’s just my 2 cents.
 
When you dosed N and had SPS issues, where you monitoring PO4? PO4 bottoming out would explain your upset SPS back then.
I found when finding my daily N&P dosing levels it took a couple weeks for things to become happy. I just bit the bullet and carried on.

When running 2-5/0.03-0.06 I like my Alk to be 7.5-8.0 and target 7.7 with 415 Ca 1350 Mag
I feel running 7.0 is a risk as it can drop below ideal levels quickly and gives less pH buffering
Yes i monitored N and P. I only dosed till i get to 3 ppm N in like a week. I had like 0.03-0.04 P so i was advised by people here to raise it and i did raise it to 0.1 over like 10 days or so (lowering photo period on my scrubber) but that did not help either lol
 
This is my best suggestion to you. Run your Alk between 7-7.5. Natural Seawater Levels is king in my opinion. There are multiple ways to run a reef but in my experience the closer you are to the way the ocean is the better. Also for alkalinity once it falls to the desired range, dose evenly throughout the day. If you need 4 mL, dose 1 mL every 6 hours. If it’s 12 mL dose 1mL every other hour. Just keep the alkalinity stable the best you can. As for feeding, get yourself a feeding ring to make sure your pellets don’t get swept into the overflow and set the feeder to 4 times per day with two rotations each. You should never have to worry about your tank starving that way. Based off your video you are definitely not starving anything with the large fish and the way that gorgonian looked. Plus the algae on the rocks. I don’t think you will be riding the line that way. Also I would argue that 0ppm or 2ppm nitrate will be no different if it all comes from feeding vs dosing. Just run your alkalinity near NSW levels (7-7.5) and you will do well. That’s just my 2 cents.
Cool i was thinking 7-7.5 dkh as well to give myself a margin of safety. Most of my feeding is in the form of frozen though, i feed pellets but not the bulk. The bulk is frozen and nori and amino acids and reef roids. I think running very close to sea water is a bit tricky for PH maintenance purposes though. I think 7-7.5 is good so if my nitrates are like 2-5 it will be fine and if they go back to zero it is not a problem either and i will not get burnt tips.
Thanks again
 
Cool i was thinking 7-7.5 dkh as well to give myself a margin of safety. Most of my feeding is in the form of frozen though, i feed pellets but not the bulk. The bulk is frozen and nori and amino acids and reef roids. I think running very close to sea water is a bit tricky for PH maintenance purposes though. I think 7-7.5 is good so if my nitrates are like 2-5 it will be fine and if they go back to zero it is not a problem either and i will not get burnt tips.
Thanks again
You’re welcome. Pellets can be a great way to fill in the gaps of feeding. Also, pH can be managed in several ways including refugium s, CO2 scrubbers, opening windows, running an airline from skimmer outside etc. All are great options for boosting pH without doing anything that will mess with your alkalinity. Hope it all works out for you!
 
You’re welcome. Pellets can be a great way to fill in the gaps of feeding. Also, pH can be managed in several ways including refugium s, CO2 scrubbers, opening windows, running an airline from skimmer outside etc. All are great options for boosting pH without doing anything that will mess with your alkalinity. Hope it all works out for you!
Cool, thanks re PH i have a decent ATS scrubber, but i have never measured PH for quite sometime lol
 
Cool, thanks re PH i have a decent ATS scrubber, but i have never measured PH for quite sometime lol
FWIW I think the ATS takes more CO2 from the air than the water so I don’t think they have a big impact on pH.
 
FWIW I think the ATS takes more CO2 from the air than the water so I don’t think they have a big impact on pH.
Thanks I heard running airline tubing for skimmer to outside doesnt do much either (not doable as I live in an apartment). That only leaves the co2 scrubber but they need monitoring for ph to tweak it, right?
 
FWIW, the Triton method recommends Alk at 7-8 for best results.

In my previous systems where I had the best success with SPS, my Alk was always around 7.5. I shoot for this level to give me a little "wiggle room" (like @Brandon McHenry also suggested)...and keep in mind that our test kits can easily be off by +/- 0.5 or more.
 
Just checking do you have a plan to reduce your alk? It’s my understanding that this is rather difficult besides naturally through coral growth
 
Just checking do you have a plan to reduce your alk? It’s my understanding that this is rather difficult besides naturally through coral growth
Ii already mentioned it, I stopped dosing and letting it slide. It was 8 a few days ago and today was 7.3. Will let it slide for a day or two more then start dosing.
 
Thanks I heard running airline tubing for skimmer to outside doesnt do much either (not doable as I live in an apartment). That only leaves the co2 scrubber but they need monitoring for ph to tweak it, right?
Well first Ill say you might not even have a pH issue. From my experience with running an airline it does work very well if you have a true CO2 issue. And with CO2 scrubbers you shouldn’t need to tweak it since it will only remove excess CO2 that is entering the skimmer. It’s worth looking in to your pH since it is important but if you don’t have a serious issue I would t do anything drastic.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
Back
Top