Proper dosing of Coppersafe

[HotRocks]

Very good to know! I'll probably invest in one. It's kind of a dream come true to see a number pop up rather than strain the eyes and wonder if it's really a shade darker today or if I'm just crazy (even with the Chemetrics kit). I think I may be making the switch to Copper Power regardless at this point. Too many inconsistencies with the Fritz product to seem worth it. As a curiosity, do you happen to know if the Hanna checker can be used to test ionic copper?

For those of you that had inquired. Test works perfectly fine with ionic copper, I tested my cupramine. Dosed to what should have been .50 into freshly mixed saltwater this time. I skipped the fresh test just based on the fact that yesterday's test results didn't seem to vary outside of Hanna's variance for the device of +/- .05 either with or without salt.
Result was .54

The more I test, the more faith I have in this tester! I believe this device will be widely used in the hobby here soon, making it much easier for people to test all types of copper with one single device, in a very accurate manor. It's great so far, I will continue to play with it, and share my findings. I also reached out to Hanna today to share yesterday's findings and see if I could get any more info from them (I'm not sure I will get anything out of them, as I'm sure they won't be forthcoming with information until they perform their own testing, which is totally understandable from a liability standpoint). I will keep you all posted!

 

[drstardust]

Great! Thanks so much!

 

[Big G]

Thinking out loud here, but I'm wondering if some of the bad experiences reported with Cupramine were due to the test kits, color variances, interpretation and compounded by the narrow therapeutic range.

 

[HotRocks]

Thinking out loud here, but I'm wondering if some of the bad experiences reported with Cupramine were due to the test kits, color variances, interpretation and compounded by the narrow therapeutic range.

My thoughts exactly, and cupramine also takes so little to get to the target. Dosing by drops is dangerous too imo, hard to be accurate. Also even with the digital tester, that range is so narrow you have to be very precise when dosing.

 

[drstardust]

Thinking out loud here, but I'm wondering if some of the bad experiences reported with Cupramine were due to the test kits, color variances, interpretation and compounded by the narrow therapeutic range.

I certainly think you’re on to something

 

[Brew12]

For those of you that had inquired. Test works perfectly fine with ionic copper, I tested my cupramine. Dosed to what should have been .50 into freshly mixed saltwater this time. I skipped the fresh test just based on the fact that yesterday's test results didn't seem to vary outside of Hanna's variance for the device of +/- .05 either with or without salt.
Result was .54

The more I test, the more faith I have in this tester! I believe this device will be widely used in the hobby here soon, making it much easier for people to test all types of copper with one single device, in a very accurate manor. It's great so far, I will continue to play with it, and share my findings. I also reached out to Hanna today to share yesterday's findings and see if I could get any more info from them (I'm not sure I will get anything out of them, as I'm sure they won't be forthcoming with information until they perform their own testing, which is totally understandable from a liability standpoint). I will keep you all posted!

Is this a fairly new tester? I seem to remember looking through Hanna's devices and didn't see one that they claimed would work.

 

[HotRocks]

Is this a fairly new tester? I seem to remember looking through Hanna's devices and didn't see one that they claimed would work.

I am not exactly sure how long it's been around. I think around a year. I am really hoping I get a response from them today. When I spoke to customer service on the phone they wouldn't say it doesn't work in saltwater, basically just that they didn't have results to prove accuracy in saltwater.

 

[Gmj4409]

The Hanna test has been out there for a while. I’ve contacted them a couple of times over the last year and was told both times it was a freshwater tester only. They admitted no saltwater testing had been done. Maybe this will get the ball rolling. Many thanks to Hot Rocks for getting this out into the light of day! The hobby is in desperate need of a reliable digital test.

 

[Big G]

@Brew12, @Randy Holmes-Farley
Is it the possible salinity range of saltwater aquariums that would make the results from the Hanna Copper Checker problematic vs using it in freshwater only? Would it make the results low or high? Seems like @HotRocks has been getting slightly high results so far.

 

[HotRocks]

@Brew12, @Randy Holmes-Farley
Is it the possible salinity range of saltwater aquariums that would make the results from the Hanna Copper Checker problematic vs using it in freshwater only? Would it make the results low or high? Seems like @HotRocks has been getting slightly high results so far.

@Big G if you look at the results in fresh vs salt. One was lower after salt added, one was higher after salt added. BUT both were within the +/- .05 tolerance range of the tester, which to me meant no substantial difference in fresh vs salt results.

I am going to post my future results in the thread linked below since it doesn't necessarily have to do with coppersafe moving forward. Hanna did reply to my original message and things are looking up!

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...instruments-high-range-copper-checker.368943/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The copper/bicinchoninate method that Hanna uses generally works in seawater without special changes compared to freshwater. Might it make minor difference? I do not know. Hanna may have also modified the method in ways that are not obvious.

 

[Big G]

Yeah, I didn't finish my sentence to Randy & Brew, I was referring to the Cupramine test where it was just a bit high. Have you retested Cupramine? Did you purchase the calibration sample from Hanna when you bought the Checker?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I don't know how the Hanna method responds to cupramine. Seachem doesn't say what Cupramine actually is, and that confounds kit makers (like Salifert) in knowing whether their kits work on it or not (without testing).

 

[PeterG]

Just read the first two pages and my aging brain is spinning out of control.

Just completed my two dose Prazi treatment and getting ready to dose Coppersafe into my QT for new fish. None of them have any symptoms, strictly doing QT preventative.
I’ve got 25gal of water (in a 29gal tank. Fish are two clowns, a Coral Beauty and a Six-line Wrasse.

I’m assuming I should build up the concentration gradually as this is not an emergency application and one of the fish is a Wrasse. Should I be dosing .3ml/gal twice a day for three days or .25ml/gal twice a day for three days? What will be my total copper in ppm with these methods. I bought an API test kit for measuring.

Just looking for one set of parameters.

I’ve previously used Cupramine + Seachem test kit but general consensus is Coppersafe easier on the fish.

 

[Brew12]

. Should I be dosing .3ml/gal twice a day for three days

Up until 3 days ago I would have said that this is what you should do.

Now...

I don't know what you should do. :mad:

 

[Big G]

Just read the first two pages and my aging brain is spinning out of control.

Just completed my two dose Prazi treatment and getting ready to dose Coppersafe into my QT for new fish. None of them have any symptoms, strictly doing QT preventative.
I’ve got 25gal of water (in a 29gal tank. Fish are two clowns, a Coral Beauty and a Six-line Wrasse.

I’m assuming I should build up the concentration gradually as this is not an emergency application and one of the fish is a Wrasse. Should I be dosing .3ml/gal twice a day for three days or .25ml/gal twice a day for three days? What will be my total copper in ppm with these methods. I bought an API test kit for measuring.

Just looking for one set of parameters.

I’ve previously used Cupramine + Seachem test kit but general consensus is Coppersafe easier on the fish.

Another member of R2R just dosed your same sized tank with Coppersafe. He hit, measured with an API Copper Test Kit, 2.0ppm at 30ml of Coppersafe. I'd spread out the dosing over 7-8 days. And make small doses AM & PM rather than one big dose each day. And TEST, TEST, TEST as you go along. According to calculations he should have only have been at the halfway mark or so. So be careful.

 

[HotRocks]

Yeah, I didn't finish my sentence to Randy & Brew, I was referring to the Cupramine test where it was just a bit high. Have you retested Cupramine? Did you purchase the calibration sample from Hanna when you bought the Checker?

I did not know there was a calibration checker, I will check into it. The way the tester works though, you fill your sample. Place it in the tester without the reagent and it takes a zero sample. Then you add the reagent and perform the test. I am in communication with them now. They just have not performed enough of their own R&D on the high range checker with seawater. They are very interested in my findings and asking me for additional data. Exciting Stuff!

 

[PeterG]

He hit, measured with an API Copper Test Kit, 2.0ppm at 30ml of Coppersafe. I'd spread out the dosing over 7-8 days. And make small doses AM & PM rather than one big dose each day.
And TEST, TEST, TEST as you go along. According to calculations he should have only have been at the halfway mark or so. So be careful.

So say 15 doses of 2ml each spread out over 7.5 days to treat 25 gal of water?
Testing - Will I even get a reading during the early stages? What do I need to be careful of?

 

[Big G]

Darn it @HotRocks . Curiosity got the best of me. I just bought one: Checker, xtra reagent and calibration liquid. I've got fish midway through copper in my QT right now and I'm very curious about what the test result would be with the Checker.

 

[Big G]

So say 15 doses of 2ml each spread out over 7.5 days?
Testing - Will I even get a reading during the early stages? What do I need to be careful of?

Sounds about right. I'd dose 2ml AM & 2ml PM and start testing end of day 3. Therapeutic levels of Coppersafe are 1.5ppm - 2.0ppm. So you have to decide where you want to be in that range. Be careful with the wrasse. Slow dosing is important with them. And I certainly wouldn't want to be over 2.0ppm

The other R2R member was using a new bottle of Coppersafe and a new API Test Kit. He should have gotten to the following 2.0 ppm at 54.25 ml. of Coppersafe, but he hit that level at 30 ml. tested with API Copper Test Kit. Yikes!