PUR and PAR with Leds

Just an opinion.. Panel design.. Multi spectra...lens choices..
makes life easier.. ;) or harder.. depending..
Still.. only 4 channels.. Needs IR split off..
Adv. blurb:
  • 14 new types of custom made dual core LEDs in the nanometer range from 380nm to 850nm.
  • Renders most natural appearance to the tank form 10K to 50K
  • Provides enough RED and IR LEDs needed
  • Contains Full dimming capacity in all channels, 0-100% with progressive dimming.
  • Provides IoT technology & Free apps available (App Store & Google play)
  • Gives the ability to control and program 200+ individual units!
 
Thinking about playing with the H160 along with my A160 over the DT

8529843C-E5A1-4CE9-94C8-7D66EA6DEBB5.jpeg
 
Dana
Im curious as to your reference to the UV, and IR strips that you had orphek make for you , specificaly the UV . Was it all UVA , if so what wavelengths of LED's did they use ?
thanks
 
I too am curious to the custom UV + IR strips that Orphek made for you, Dana. When I asked them, they said that there was no way for them to use UV and IR leds, and said I had to pick from a 400-730nm spectrum rather than the 380-850nm spectrum.
 
Orphek told me the same thing.^
 
Well, now, this has been interesting and, oddly, contradicting to what many had taken as common knowledge.

For years we have avoided true UV in aquarium lighting and IR. It was either deemed damaging or completely useless based on who you got your information from.

Even in scientific communities you can find spectral graphs that contradict each other with what is valuable, damaging or just plain extraneous.

I think the only way this is ever going to have a conclusion is if a group of well seasoned aquarists work with a group of trained optics specialists and biologists to determine over the course of several years what exact peaks are necessary it what proportions.

This will never happen because it would be astronomically expensive and slow. We as aquarists, while we preach patience, want equipment improvements now, now, now.

So, I think the best approach is to try out what you believe will work the best, if you are getting the coloration and growth you want, then it's the perfect light (for you) despite what we call scientific evidence of today.

I also believe @Dana Riddle is the only person coming close to having useable results for aquarium lighting. Yes, other folks have produced papers on what biologically is sound, but they really are not studying them in the real world, fully setup aquariums.

Just the opinion of someone who has been studying the effects of spectrum and intensity on aquarium inhabitants for over 20 years.

;)
 
Dana
Im curious as to your reference to the UV, and IR strips that you had orphek make for you , specificaly the UV . Was it all UVA , if so what wavelengths of LED's did they use ?
thanks
This is typical of the UV-A LEDs Orphek uses. There is some light bleeding from adjacent LEDs through the acrylic lens and this accounts for the visible portion of the spectrum.
upload_2019-1-21_10-44-25.png

upload_2019-1-21_10-44-48.png
 
I too am curious to the custom UV + IR strips that Orphek made for you, Dana. When I asked them, they said that there was no way for them to use UV and IR leds, and said I had to pick from a 400-730nm spectrum rather than the 380-850nm spectrum.
Not sure what's going on. I was under the impression Orphek would custom build a strip with any LED available, they certainly did for me but then these are for research purposes. Who did you guys talk to? Ofir?
 
Thanks. I am just curious. I haven't found any others that were even remotely affordable, even in quantity, with that range.
SuperbrightLEDs.com has some (advertised to be 380nm) at a reasonable price but I'm not sure they meet your requirements.
 
I will check them out. I have looked there before but found nothing. I must have missed them.

Thanks!
 
Not sure what's going on. I was under the impression Orphek would custom build a strip with any LED available, they certainly did for me but then these are for research purposes. Who did you guys talk to? Ofir?

I talked to James G over email.

Thanks. I am just curious. I haven't found any others that were even remotely affordable, even in quantity, with that range.

https://store.waveformlighting.com/collections/led-strips
 
Not sure what's going on. I was under the impression Orphek would custom build a strip with any LED available, they certainly did for me but then these are for research purposes. Who did you guys talk to? Ofir?

I was talking to James
 
Get one that will actually last. No reason to drop the coin on an LED that has about the same shelf-life as a MH bulb.

https://acrooptics.com/

:)
 
Photosynthesis occurs across a much wider range than is visible to the naked eye (the wavelengths that PAR is constrained to).

For some clarity on the UV front, UVA is typically considered to cover 320nM to 400nM, 290nM-320nM is B, <290nM C). MH bulbs can put out a bunch of UV, not limited to A. That is one reason they will often have very thick tempered glass between the bulb and the tank (plus, they have a nasty habit of exploding if they get wet while on - the glass responds to the temperature differential and shatters).

UV light is very high energy, and can bleach coral (and burn your skin) if too much is provided, or introduced too quickly. On the plus side, a lot of the caratenoids and xanthophylls that are used for photo-inhibition (protecting the coral and its symbiots from excessive light) are also the ones that give corals some of their best colors. Some caratenoids are also photosynthetic.

The reason MH guys are adamant about MH is that the broad spectral output will bring out a ton of colors in corals. The logistical challenge is that you get widely variable light density depending on where the coral is relative to the luminaire - MH act a lot like point sources, and so the output drops significantly the farther away you get. They also drop in output very quickly because of how hot they run, so if you keep a high light requirement tank (say, all Acros and Montis), you will need to change them frequently to keep the light environment stable. Plus, the heat - it has to be diffused somehow, usually by loud-butt fans, and no matter what you do some will wind up in the tank.

LEDs are a lot more advanced than they were 20 years ago. Blue and white were the easiest and most efficient to produce in the early days, followed closely by the mid-600nM reds, though that came later. The whites have a big blue spike, which is why they look metallic. However, with the $B's spent by companies like Phillips and Nichia, they have come a long way, so you can generate a much broader spectrum with LEDs than has been the case.

IR is beneficial to the propagation of the zooxanthallae themselves, which indirectly benefits the corals. Part of the reproductive process of all plants, marine or terrestrial, is linked to IR in the 780 range and the 840 range, though the latter won't be seen in many reef lights - they are expensive as hell.

For my money, I'd rather drop some extra coin up front, and reduce the amount of maintenance and the "where do I put this new frag" dance, and get a solid light that will last for years and gives me a uniform light palette across the tank. Check these guys out. https://acrooptics.com/

Pricey in the sort term, cheaper in the long run, and they have a very long run. There are quite a few LED lights available that skimp on the heat diffusion in the name of slick design - even with the much more efficient current-to-light output compared to MH, LEDs do get hot, especially right at the pad - I've seen high-priced Radions burn out in a year, though run correctly, the diodes they use should last 10. I have one of the Gen1 AO lights over my SPS tank, and it has been humming along for over 5 years, putting out the same amount of light as the day I put it up. (I am lucky to have a Licor 193 submersible photometer to keep track, one of the benefits of being surrounded by a ton of engineers.)

Back to the initial question, 300 PAR in a tight wavelength pattern (especially 440-470 blue) can be overwhelming for corals, simply because they penetrate water very efficiently - that's why pools look blue - it will bounce of the bottom and make it back to your eye, where the greens and reds will not. So, I see a lot of tanks that keep the PAR reading low, maybe 150-250, where the corals are happy, although they look like windex. Take one of the corals out and place it under a broaer spectrum light, though, and the bright colors you see are no longer visible. Stick with a broad spectrum light, whether MH or LED (or T5, or whatever). Your corals will thank you for it, and you will be glad you did. There is a lot more to attractive, thriving corals than just photosynthesis.
 
Read your post with interest. While it is possible that xanthophylls (xantho means yellow) and carotenoids (named after the pigments extracted from a carrot, and are yellow or orange) might make a coral appear those colors, it is generally accepted that the colorful reflective and florescent colorations are due to the presence of specialized proteins.
While far-red/infrared light plays a role in terrestrial plant flowering, it is not at all clear (to me anyway) how this could be so in deeper waters. Here is a chart showing light quality at a depth of one meter (about 10 am on a beautiful morning and taken with an Ocean Optics fiber optic spectrometer at Kahaluu Beach Park, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii.)
upload_2019-1-22_9-53-3.png


Photosynthesis occurs across a much wider range than is visible to the naked eye (the wavelengths that PAR is constrained to).

For some clarity on the UV front, UVA is typically considered to cover 320nM to 400nM, 290nM-320nM is B, <290nM C). MH bulbs can put out a bunch of UV, not limited to A. That is one reason they will often have very thick tempered glass between the bulb and the tank (plus, they have a nasty habit of exploding if they get wet while on - the glass responds to the temperature differential and shatters).

UV light is very high energy, and can bleach coral (and burn your skin) if too much is provided, or introduced too quickly. On the plus side, a lot of the caratenoids and xanthophylls that are used for photo-inhibition (protecting the coral and its symbiots from excessive light) are also the ones that give corals some of their best colors. Some caratenoids are also photosynthetic.

The reason MH guys are adamant about MH is that the broad spectral output will bring out a ton of colors in corals. The logistical challenge is that you get widely variable light density depending on where the coral is relative to the luminaire - MH act a lot like point sources, and so the output drops significantly the farther away you get. They also drop in output very quickly because of how hot they run, so if you keep a high light requirement tank (say, all Acros and Montis), you will need to change them frequently to keep the light environment stable. Plus, the heat - it has to be diffused somehow, usually by loud-*** fans, and no matter what you do some will wind up in the tank.

LEDs are a lot more advanced than they were 20 years ago. Blue and white were the easiest and most efficient to produce in the early days, followed closely by the mid-600nM reds, though that came later. The whites have a big blue spike, which is why they look metallic. However, with the $B's spent by companies like Phillips and Nichia, they have come a long way, so you can generate a much broader spectrum with LEDs than has been the case.

IR is beneficial to the propagation of the zooxanthallae themselves, which indirectly benefits the corals. Part of the reproductive process of all plants, marine or terrestrial, is linked to IR in the 780 range and the 840 range, though the latter won't be seen in many reef lights - they are expensive as hell.

For my money, I'd rather drop some extra coin up front, and reduce the amount of maintenance and the "where do I put this new frag" dance, and get a solid light that will last for years and gives me a uniform light palette across the tank. Check these guys out. https://acrooptics.com/

Pricey in the sort term, cheaper in the long run, and they have a very long run. There are quite a few LED lights available that skimp on the heat diffusion in the name of slick design - even with the much more efficient current-to-light output compared to MH, LEDs do get hot, especially right at the pad - I've seen high-priced Radions burn out in a year, though run correctly, the diodes they use should last 10. I have one of the Gen1 AO lights over my SPS tank, and it has been humming along for over 5 years, putting out the same amount of light as the day I put it up. (I am lucky to have a Licor 193 submersible photometer to keep track, one of the benefits of being surrounded by a ton of engineers.)

Back to the initial question, 300 PAR in a tight wavelength pattern (especially 440-470 blue) can be overwhelming for corals, simply because they penetrate water very efficiently - that's why pools look blue - it will bounce of the bottom and make it back to your eye, where the greens and reds will not. So, I see a lot of tanks that keep the PAR reading low, maybe 150-250, where the corals are happy, although they look like windex. Take one of the corals out and place it under a broaer spectrum light, though, and the bright colors you see are no longer visible. Stick with a broad spectrum light, whether MH or LED (or T5, or whatever). Your corals will thank you for it, and you will be glad you did. There is a lot more to attractive, thriving corals than just photosynthesis.
 
Read your post with interest. While it is possible that xanthophylls (xantho means yellow) and carotenoids (named after the pigments extracted from a carrot, and are yellow or orange) might make a coral appear those colors, it is generally accepted that the colorful reflective and florescent colorations are due to the presence of specialized proteins.
While far-red/infrared light plays a role in terrestrial plant flowering, it is not at all clear (to me anyway) how this could be so in deeper waters. Here is a chart showing light quality at a depth of one meter (about 10 am on a beautiful morning and taken with an Ocean Optics fiber optic spectrometer at Kahaluu Beach Park, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii.)
upload_2019-1-22_9-53-3.png

That is the most interesting graph yet.

So, the assumption from that graph is, to get an accurate representation of color visually, we would need to punch up everything surrounding the yellow/orange/red spectrums to be able to penetrate as efficiently or turn down those spectrums if we have them, no?

Maybe I am over simplifying it.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
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