Pygmy angels in a reef... what's your experience?

SashimiTurtle · Feb 6, 2018

I've been looking for a Caribbean cherub angelfish for a while and I'm having a hard time sourcing one. One LFS got one in for me but while I had it on hold to make sure it was eating, it passed away. Which leads me to consider the flameback. I know there are risks involved with any centropyge, but I'd like to know your experiences with your pygmy angel.

Also, anyone know where I can find a cherub online, with a good reputation and health warranty?

rlman41299 · Feb 6, 2018

I have a 120 mixed reef and have 4 pygmy angelfish. Flame angel, potter's angel, flame back angel and a lemon peel hybrid. they are doing well in my mixed reef, they do nip at times but not to a point where they will kill a coral.

SashimiTurtle · Feb 6, 2018

I'm looking at the pygmy dwarf angels. The flame, potter's and lemon peel will be too big for my tank. I might should have added that in. I have a 35 gallon cube. 20" on all sides. How is the temperament on your flameback? Agression?

ca1ore · Feb 6, 2018

Depends on what corals you keep and how OCD you are. If you keep large polyp, fleshy corals it's likely not going to end well for the coral. Likewise if you freak out at every little nip. I have four dwarfs in my tank (though not the cherub nor flameback) and they are mostly fine ..... mostly. When I had a flameback, it was fine with the corals though an aggressive little SOB.

redfishbluefish · Feb 6, 2018

I've had a Flame Angelfish and current have a Flame Back Angel, in a mixed reef, and never had issues with either.

NeuroticAquatics · Feb 6, 2018

I’ve got a Cherub in my 60g cube. It has never bothered anything. I’m mostly zoas, LPS, montiporas but have a mix of other corals.

SashimiTurtle · Feb 6, 2018

Current corals are sympodium, zoas, acans, monti digi, thin branch bird's nest and some struggling pavona and acro frags. I'd like to add some blastos, a scoly and stylophora(one of my all time favorite) at some point. I'm guessing the acans blastos and scoly will be the targets if it goes rogue.

Jesterrace · Feb 6, 2018

Robin Haselden said:
I've been looking for a Caribbean cherub angelfish for a while and I'm having a hard time sourcing one. One LFS got one in for me but while I had it on hold to make sure it was eating, it passed away. Which leads me to consider the flameback. I know there are risks involved with any centropyge, but I'd like to know your experiences with your pygmy angel.

Also, anyone know where I can find a cherub online, with a good reputation and health warranty?

I would be more concerned about aggression, especially in a tank that small. The Pygmy Angels may be small but they are very active. One of my LFS has the flameback and it covers the length of their 150 back and forth in just a few seconds. I think the thing that supprised me most was that although the Pygmys are short on length they are pretty thick in girth for what they are when fully grown. Flamebacks are reportedly more aggressive than the Cherubfish but all Pygmys tend to be on the more aggressive end of the Centropyge speices. I have heard of some people having success with Coral Beauties in cubes (they only get about 1 inch bigger than a pygmy), but the aggression factor with them is lower in general than Pygmys. Also alot of it depends on your stock in your tank. If you currently have relatively timid fish (ie Peaceful Gobies, Dartfish, Blennies) then aggression will be a serious factor.

Jesterrace · Feb 6, 2018

redfishbluefish said:
I've had a Flame Angelfish and current have a Flame Back Angel, in a mixed reef, and never had issues with either.

What size is your tank though? This guy is looking to put one in a 35 gallon cube.

SashimiTurtle · Feb 6, 2018

Jesterrace said:
I would be more concerned about aggression, especially in a tank that small. The Pygmy Angels may be small but they are very active. One of my LFS has the flameback and it covers the length of their 150 back and forth in just a few seconds. I think the thing that supprised me most was that although the Pygmys are short on length they are pretty thick in girth for what they are when fully grown. Flamebacks are reportedly more aggressive than the Cherubfish but all Pygmys tend to be on the more aggressive end of the Centropyge speices. I have heard of some people having success with Coral Beauties in cubes (they only get about 1 inch bigger than a pygmy), but the aggression factor with them is lower in general than Pygmys. Also alot of it depends on your stock in your tank. If you currently have relatively timid fish (ie Peaceful Gobies, Dartfish, Blennies) then aggression will be a serious factor.

Current stock is a pair of black ocellaris, sapphire damsel, tail spot blenny and a hi fin goby. The tank looks empty most of the day. The tail spot hugs the rock and the hi fin stays at the entrance of its little cave. The clowns and the damsel do the swimming, and that's not much from them. Absolutely no aggression seen from anyone except from the hi fin when the damsel tried to hide in her hole, the damsel gave the hi fin a quick peck on the bottom lip as if to say "you win but not without a fight," then retreated.

Other than that, I think I have the most peaceful clowns in existance. They never bother anything or show any agression. They just want to know why I'm not constantly putting food in the tank.

I've read about the flameback agression, which is why I was trying to locate a cherub. I've been having problems with that tho. I thought the coral beauty would be too big for my cube, maybe more like a 60...? That was the first angel I wanted.

I've pretty much decided on a royal(or black cap) gramma, a small wrasse and possibly a cherub angel if I can find one, and call the tank fully stocked. Still on the fence with the cherub angel but leaning towards go.

Jesterrace · Feb 6, 2018

The Coral Beauty maxes out around 4 inches (vs the 3 inch Pygmy), but both need a fair bit of space and established rock work to graze on algae in order to be happy. I would be concerned about your tail spot blenny and a pygmy/dwarf angel as that is a fish that would be easily bullied and it grazes their primary feeding ground. Also given the size of your tank, what you are proposing to add would be way overstocked. As for wrasses, which one were you looking at? Most are too big for a 35 gallon tank.

Tony Thompson · Feb 6, 2018

Captive Bred Coral Beauty. I have had mine for about six months in my LPS tank. numerouse Euphyllia, Echinophyllia, Pectinia, Acans, Gorgonians, Candy canes. Leptastrea, Favia. She doese not touch any of the corals and shows no aggression to the other tank mates, 1 Neon Goby and 1 Banggai. My tank is 30 Gal. I would be carefull with your bioload though, your list contains quite a few species.

Jesterrace · Feb 6, 2018

Robin Haselden said:
Current stock is a pair of black ocellaris, sapphire damsel, tail spot blenny and a hi fin goby. The tank looks empty most of the day. The tail spot hugs the rock and the hi fin stays at the entrance of its little cave. The clowns and the damsel do the swimming, and that's not much from them. Absolutely no aggression seen from anyone except from the hi fin when the damsel tried to hide in her hole, the damsel gave the hi fin a quick peck on the bottom lip as if to say "you win but not without a fight," then retreated.

Other than that, I think I have the most peaceful clowns in existance. They never bother anything or show any agression. They just want to know why I'm not constantly putting food in the tank.

I've read about the flameback agression, which is why I was trying to locate a cherub. I've been having problems with that tho. I thought the coral beauty would be too big for my cube, maybe more like a 60...? That was the first angel I wanted.

I've pretty much decided on a royal(or black cap) gramma, a small wrasse and possibly a cherub angel if I can find one, and call the tank fully stocked. Still on the fence with the cherub angel but leaning towards go.

I take it you live out in the boonies? Bluezooaquatics has them in although people have had mixed results with Bluezoo.

https://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDetail.asp?did=1&pid=137&cid=9

SashimiTurtle · Feb 6, 2018

Jesterrace said:
I take it you live out in the boonies? Bluezooaquatics has them in although people have had mixed results with Bluezoo.

https://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDetail.asp?did=1&pid=137&cid=9

About 30-40 minutes north east of Columbia, SC. Closest LFS is 15 minutes away in NE Columbia, VERY limited fish selection. I've gotten most of my fish, present and past, from Live Aquaria.

Yea, I know about the reviews on blue zoo... not thrilled about the idea of ordering from them.

Jesterrace said:
The Coral Beauty maxes out around 4 inches (vs the 3 inch Pygmy), but both need a fair bit of space and established rock work to graze on algae in order to be happy. I would be concerned about your tail spot blenny and a pygmy/dwarf angel as that is a fish that would be easily bullied and it grazes their primary feeding ground. Also given the size of your tank, what you are proposing to add would be way overstocked. As for wrasses, which one were you looking at? Most are too big for a 35 gallon tank.

Why would you say over stocked? I'm not arguing

just trying to see your point of view. My tank looks empty with my current stock. I was considering one of the pygmy wrasse, wetmorella I believe is the scientific name.

Opus · Feb 6, 2018

Over the years I've kept a cherub, african flameback, brazilian flameback and coral beauty in a 30 gal (only 1 at a time) with no issues. I've always found the cherub to be very active compared to the others.

PanchoG · Feb 6, 2018

Got to pygmy angels in a 125g system, they are doing great. Same as others they do nip in some SPS but not enough to kill any of corals. They are also peaceful members, they are getting along with my clowns, chromis, foxface and tang. I wish I could say the same about the tang!

reeferfoxx · Feb 6, 2018

I got my cherub from blue zoo. Very healthy little $%!7. Had him for well over a year now without issues other than him thinking he runs the tank lol.

SashimiTurtle · Feb 6, 2018

reeferfoxx said:
I got my cherub from blue zoo. Very healthy little $%!7. Had him for well over a year now without issues other than him thinking he runs the tank lol.

How was your experience with them? I've seen so many mixed reviews that I'm a little gun shy...

Zack K · Feb 6, 2018

Flameback Angles are quite Aggressive. I would stick to the cherub personally. I had a Red Stripe, and he was not only a delicate fish, but also peaceful. Didn’t munch on anything, but high susceptible to Marine Diseases.

As for stocking, you have Marine Spheres in your Refugium and have low nutrients all ready. I would add one at a time and watch your numbers. Your tank will let you know when it’s had enough. I have a 65 with 14 fish in In it. Including a Tang. By that logic I’m “overstocked”

-Zack, who may be following the Deep Blue Sea

Psustein · Feb 6, 2018

I had a flame angel that never nipped at any corals and really never bothered anything in the tank personal opinion is reef safe with a touch of caution.