Pygmy angels in a reef... what's your experience?

reeferfoxx · Feb 6, 2018

Robin Haselden said:
How was your experience with them? I've seen so many mixed reviews that I'm a little gun shy...

Well, I ran into some shipping issues with live aquaria last year. Actually, started a thread about it because I was so shocked at how badly they were shipping live stock(at the time). I think after my 2nd or 3rd LA order I went to blue zoo and even with a shipping delay during holidays, the fish arrived alive and healthy without issues.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/not-the-time-of-year-for-live-aquaria.279581/page-2#post-3395636

SashimiTurtle · Feb 6, 2018

reeferfoxx said:
Well, I ran into some shipping issues with live aquaria last year. Actually, started a thread about it because I was so shocked at how badly they were shipping live stock(at the time). I think after my 2nd or 3rd LA order I went to blue zoo and even with a shipping delay during holidays, the fish arrived alive and healthy without issues.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/not-the-time-of-year-for-live-aquaria.279581/page-2#post-3395636

I just read your first post, but that's insane! Frozen fish... brrr I feel bad for the guys, me being a cold blooded shelled sea reptile and all. The cold gives me the shivers.

I think I'm gonna try and order from blue zoo, since they seem to be the only ones with a cherub in stock. I'm working 12 hour days for the rest of this week so I'll have to wait until next week when I have time off durring the day.

reeferfoxx · Feb 6, 2018

Robin Haselden said:
I just read your first post, but that's insane! Frozen fish... brrr I feel bad for the guys, me being a cold blooded shelled sea reptile and all. The cold gives me the shivers.

I think I'm gonna try and order from blue zoo, since they seem to be the only ones with a cherub in stock. I'm working 12 hour days for the rest of this week so I'll have to wait until next week when I have time off durring the day.

Crossing fingers! Usually colder weather ups the fish shipping "game" and also makes it easier. Easier because colder weather makes the fish lethargic and use less O2. Just, please don't blame me for any mishaps lol

lewisriverfisherman · Feb 6, 2018

I just took my pygmy cherub back to the lfs as i want to keep a clam in the future. Also im putting about $200 worth of zoas in my tank in the next 2 weeks and can' afford to take a chance on any of them being eaten.

don_chuwish · Feb 6, 2018

My Pygmy Yellowtail Angelfish (Centropyge flavicauda) has been incredibly reliable, is super active - covers more of the tank than any other fish - and is inexpensive. LiveAquaria has them for $24.99.

Jesterrace · Feb 6, 2018

Robin Haselden said:
About 30-40 minutes north east of Columbia, SC. Closest LFS is 15 minutes away in NE Columbia, VERY limited fish selection. I've gotten most of my fish, present and past, from Live Aquaria.

Yea, I know about the reviews on blue zoo... not thrilled about the idea of ordering from them.

Why would you say over stocked? I'm not arguing just trying to see your point of view. My tank looks empty with my current stock. I was considering one of the pygmy wrasse, wetmorella I believe is the scientific name.

Simply because Saltwater fish need more space than freshwater fish do. The inch per gallon rule is overrated for freshwater and gets tossed right out the window with salt. These are ocean fish after all and they need more space. 8 fish in a 35 gallon cube is overstocked for saltwater, especially when you are talking about putting a very active fish (and one prone to aggression) like a Pygmy Angel in there. As for the tank looking empty, unfortunately that is one of the drawbacks of fish that are prone to hiding/dinky fish. I made that mistake when I started with my 36 gallon bowfront and got a couple of dartfish (Scissortail and Purple Firefish). They would hide most of the time and so sometimes my Diamond Watchman Goby was my only visible and active fish in the tank.

ca1ore · Feb 6, 2018

Live aquaria, BlueZoo and NYAquatic are all good online sources for fish. I've ordered from each many times. Everybody has a bad day sometimes.

JTreef · Feb 6, 2018

I’ve had a flame and Coral beauty in the past. Right now I have a multicolor and cherub. They nip but have never harmed anything. Corals tend to only extend polyps at night though. Bad for my scoly. Made it difficult to feed so it shrank in size. I sold it rather than take a chance.
Fishers are very small Pygmy angels. Not quite as bright but still nice.

eatbreakfast · Feb 7, 2018

Jesterrace said:
The Coral Beauty maxes out around 4 inches (vs the 3 inch Pygmy), but both need a fair bit of space and established rock work to graze on algae in order to be happy. I would be concerned about your tail spot blenny and a pygmy/dwarf angel as that is a fish that would be easily bullied and it grazes their primary feeding ground. Also given the size of your tank, what you are proposing to add would be way overstocked. As for wrasses, which one were you looking at? Most are too big for a 35 gallon tank.

Coral beauties get closer to 5" and at full grown get too big for 30g.

Jesterrace said:
Simply because Saltwater fish need more space than freshwater fish do. The inch per gallon rule is overrated for freshwater and gets tossed right out the window with salt. These are ocean fish after all and they need more space. 8 fish in a 35 gallon cube is overstocked for saltwater, especially when you are talking about putting a very active fish (and one prone to aggression) like a Pygmy Angel in there. As for the tank looking empty, unfortunately that is one of the drawbacks of fish that are prone to hiding/dinky fish. I made that mistake when I started with my 36 gallon bowfront and got a couple of dartfish (Scissortail and Purple Firefish). They would hide most of the time and so sometimes my Diamond Watchman Goby was my only visible and active fish in the tank.

Cherubs are active, but with enough to explore and graze can be fine. In fact they are the only angel I would recommend for a tank that size.

Capacity for a tank varies greatly between setups. 1 factor is water quality. If water quality is being properly cared for more bioload can be added. Another factor is behavior. If the fish in there already are small or don't have a lot of space requirements, then it is not overpopulated.

SashimiTurtle · Feb 7, 2018

eatbreakfast said:
Coral beauties get closer to 5" and at full grown get too big for 30g.

Cherubs are active, but with enough to explore and graze can be fine. In fact they are the only angel I would recommend for a tank that size.

Capacity for a tank varies greatly between setups. 1 factor is water quality. If water quality is being properly cared for more bioload can be added. Another factor is behavior. If the fish in there already are small or don't have a lot of space requirements, then it is not overpopulated.

I was pretty sure a coral beauty was too large. My tank has 4ppm nitrates and 0.04ppm phosphates, and falling. I started the tank in October with dry pukani and I finally have nutrients down to a manageable level. I have a small refugium with chaeto and ulva(possible fish food source) lit by a H380 and a Curve 5 skimmer running on minimum. I would say for my filtration my tank is lightly stocked, but I'll only be adding 2 maybe 3 more fish that do not exceed 3".

rockstarta78 · Feb 7, 2018

I've always loved dwarf angels. I think partially I got into this hobby so I could keep flame angels. I think the trick with keeping reef safe-ish (if that's a word) dwarf angel is 2 folds. 1. Room to swim and 2. amount of feeding. I tried keeping a juvenile flame angel in a 40B tank, it was fine until it was matured and then snapped. The odd thing is, I had a better luck with African Flameback..... go figure. The other thing is, you'd have to be able to feed these fish 3-4 times a day. I think with ample swimming space and a solid feeding regiment these fish can be very reef safe. You will always see a fish that's a jerk because...... well because he can be.

Makers Marc · Feb 7, 2018

rockstarta78 said:
I've always loved dwarf angels. I think partially I got into this hobby so I could keep flame angels. I think the trick with keeping reef safe-ish (if that's a word) dwarf angel is 2 folds. 1. Room to swim and 2. amount of feeding. I tried keeping a juvenile flame angel in a 40B tank, it was fine until it was matured and then snapped. The odd thing is, I had a better luck with African Flameback..... go figure. The other thing is, you'd have to be able to feed these fish 3-4 times a day. I think with ample swimming space and a solid feeding regiment these fish can be very reef safe. You will always see a fish that's a jerk because...... well because he can be.

My flame wasnt destructive to anything buy my LPS fleshy ones. Also kept polyps retracted for smaller Acro frags.

If you have a busy tank with lots of larger colonies of Sps i think you can make it work. But if you only have 5-10 frags, expect it to nip enough to keep polyps in.

aquaman33431 · Feb 7, 2018

Love my chubby cherub. Great personality and very active/friendly. My 260 is all softies but have no issues with my dwarf angels. Ive had good luck with liveaquaria.

Mkus · Feb 7, 2018

I have a Pygmy in a 24 gal with a 8 yo clown and they get along fine the Pygmy came from local Lfs was a nipper but my clown attacks me when I put my hand in the tank so I knew tha angel would be ok and they are going on a year now a variety of foods and some growing macro they like to munch on that.
And all is well looks beautiful I hear they mainly will eat the slime from corals not sure if that’s true I have all LPS coral never seen him pick them.

EmdeReef · Feb 7, 2018

Cherubs and pygmies are very active and fast swimmers and like to swim quite a bit for such small fish. They’re likely to nip at your corals but may not kill it. In a large enough system they'll rarely focus on 1 coral and instead spend more time grazing on LR.

In your case, and I’m not getting into the appropriate tank size debate, I think you do run some additional risk that it does develop appetite for the corals, as they’ll quite literally be in its face non stop.

Krzydmnd · Feb 7, 2018

I have a pygmy in a 32g. It's definitely the most active fish in the tank and I love watching him.

Mine does not nip at any coral I have but they're all stony including some lps but he leaves everything alone .

He seems to herd one of my firefish around occasionally but doesn't nip at it and doesn't really get too bullish.

YMMV but my pygmy is
my favorite in the tank.

Aqua Box · Feb 7, 2018

This presentation might help

SashimiTurtle · Feb 7, 2018

Thinking I might hold off on the angel.

Aqua Box said:
This presentation might help

Thank you. Very nice presentation.

All of my favorite corals are on your list of tasty treats. Zoas, acans, blastos, lobos, trachys, scolys... all of your "semi-fleshy" LPS. I'm leaning towards not getting an angel now.

Luno · Feb 7, 2018

My flame angel picks at sps polyps. I only have 1 non sps coral which is a Duncan for my clowns to host leaves that alone. It's actually rather timid of a fish compared to what I've heard. Gets the business from the clowns and my shrimp