QT Tank Stabilization help!
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Mini Coop
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on it
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Mini Coop
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Ok! @Humblefish @melypr1985 and anyone else. I know I am trying to be patient for the QT to cycle but I have been changing the water every other day (about 30%). The Ammonia is zero. But the nitrates and nitrites are sky high! I have even tested the nitrates and nitrites in the water I am mixing to test that and it is ok! . (Apparently my RO system is royally screwed up, so now I am dealing with that issue too and working on getting a new one - so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am looking at the
BRS 6 Stage Universal Water Saver Plus RO/DI System - 150GPD - I figure it will be the system that will be the best for even if I get a larger tank some day. Thoughts?
Anyway - I have GOT to get these nitrates and nitrites down!! I did a change today - this afternoon. The pictures are the test results from tonight, around 8. I am getting some fresh RO water from a friend to mix tomorrow to start fresh, but like I said, the water mixing in the barrel is not showing any nitrates or nitrites. The fish do not appear to be in stress, they are eating great, and not showing any issues, but I still need to treat with copper, and the 76 fallow days for the DT (which is doing awesome) isn't until Christmas. I am half tempted to put them in the main tank and risk whether the ich is gone or not. I just don't want them stressed.
I am putting a capfull of seachems stability in the sponge filter without it running for 1 hour each water change I do as well. Please let me know if it is still patience I need to have or if there is something I need to do to add to the QT to help.
BRS 6 Stage Universal Water Saver Plus RO/DI System - 150GPD - I figure it will be the system that will be the best for even if I get a larger tank some day. Thoughts?
Anyway - I have GOT to get these nitrates and nitrites down!! I did a change today - this afternoon. The pictures are the test results from tonight, around 8. I am getting some fresh RO water from a friend to mix tomorrow to start fresh, but like I said, the water mixing in the barrel is not showing any nitrates or nitrites. The fish do not appear to be in stress, they are eating great, and not showing any issues, but I still need to treat with copper, and the 76 fallow days for the DT (which is doing awesome) isn't until Christmas. I am half tempted to put them in the main tank and risk whether the ich is gone or not. I just don't want them stressed.
I am putting a capfull of seachems stability in the sponge filter without it running for 1 hour each water change I do as well. Please let me know if it is still patience I need to have or if there is something I need to do to add to the QT to help.
erinmegan85
Well-Known Member
I'm by no means an expert, but I've heard that nitrite is not as big of a concern in the saltwater world as the freshwater world. I've also read that if nitrites are detected that it can throw off the results of a nitrate test as well. However, since they both look high it's probably right. I think the big concern with nitrate is the algae and such that it can cause. I could be totally wrong though.
drawman
2500 Club Member
What was the issue with your RO unit? The BRS units work well I would just educate yourself on how to maintain it and keep up with a good filter/DI replacement schedule and you will be doing well!
Personally, I would not put them back in the main tank. I think moving them back and forth will stress them out more and only set back your fallow period. I think you can keep things in check now with good quality sourced RODI water that you will use to make saltwater for water changes. I see 40ppm nitrates so if you do a 10 gallon water change that will put you at a respectable 20ppm. I think you're doing just fine!
Personally, I would not put them back in the main tank. I think moving them back and forth will stress them out more and only set back your fallow period. I think you can keep things in check now with good quality sourced RODI water that you will use to make saltwater for water changes. I see 40ppm nitrates so if you do a 10 gallon water change that will put you at a respectable 20ppm. I think you're doing just fine!
It looks like the tank is still cycling; however I can't understand why its taking so long. I know you said previously you were adding bacteria in a bottle and hadn't started treating with copper yet. What exact filter are you using in QT? (Sorry if you've already answered this and I forgot.)
I'm a big fan of Spectrapure RODI systems. This is the one I use: http://spectrapure.com/Refurbished-90-GPD-RODI-System
I'm a big fan of Spectrapure RODI systems. This is the one I use: http://spectrapure.com/Refurbished-90-GPD-RODI-System
melypr1985
totally addicted
I'm sure that one would be fine. I have a BRS RODI as well and like it well enough. There are several brands out there that are good for this hobby.
Like humble said, it does seem like the tank is cycling. Feels like it's stalled out on you. The nitrates arn't important here though... we just want to see the nitrites go down so we know your tank has cycled. I would switch to a different bacteria in a bottle product in hopes of getting a different strain of bacteria.
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Mini Coop
Valuable Member
I have had a sponge seeding in the sump of the DT for about a month now. Would there be benefit to take the one that is in there out and put the other in instead? Or will that backtrack me?
miyags
Valuable Member
How old is sponge in QT? Is it getting clogged up by exsess food? how large are your foxfase and tang? are they eating every bit of food? It's easy to overfeed in that small of QT. Do you have good air exchange in the QT
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I think your problem is that you have a higher bio load with heavier feeding than your sponge filter can handle. In my opinion you should get a HOB filter and add that to your system. You will still need water changes for your nitrates but that should help your nitrite problem. Don't take your sponge filter off line, just add the HOB.
melypr1985
totally addicted
Since you're still leaving the tank fallow it would be a small risk. Of course the fish haven't been treated yet, so it's probably fine and actually a good idea.
I guess I should add that doing the above is a good idea if the sponge is going into a power filter where it will be most useful. Brew's comment made me realize I wasn't totally sure what kind of filter you had there.
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Mini Coop
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No. I just have an over the back filter with a black sponge in it and a 20 gallon powerhead. The over the back filter I also have a bio bag in the bottom as well. I have rinsed the black sponge to make sure it isn't getting clogged with food and such as @miyags mentioned. Sailfin and foxface are small, started as babies - only had them since August. I also have 2 fire fish. They seem to eat all of the food pretty quickly. I feed seaweed in the morning and then mysis shrimp at night. Sometimes I feed pellets instead of shrimp. I am including pics of the QT filter I have running. No carbon because I was waiting to treat with copper. In the back, you can see the black sponge sticking up, bio bag under it. the front is an extra ammonia reducer sponge. I change it often, but not sure I need it with the ammonia being at zero. @Humblefish do i need to get a filter like what you posted and add that too?Just so we're sure about this... You are using an air driven sponge filter in QT, correct? Like the one below:
Brew12
Electrical Gru
First.... my apologies, I thought you said you used a sponge filter. I may have led the conversation down the wrong path. The HOB filter you are using should be more than enough for your system.
I'm not a fan of artificial ammonia reducers since we want bacteria to consume it not for it to be removed. That said, bacteria are converting the ammonia to nitrite so it's hard to see where this could be the problem. Using Stability pretty well eliminates the possibility that the bacteria was too old or had seen temperature extremes.
I've used Biospira in my QT with a similar HOB filter and haven't had any problems.
I have spent a very large amount of time studying the biology behind how a tank cycles lately. During this research I have seen quite a few posts about fresh water aquarium that were cycled using Stability that had high nitrites but none with salt water. Of course, this could be due to people with salt water fish being less susceptible to nitrite poisoning. As others have pointed out, high nitrites are much less an issue in salt water aquarium than fresh water. In my opinion you should try a different bacteria in a bottle product or add the sponge from you DT to your QT (only because you haven't treated your QT yet).
*** Warning!!! Nerd Alert!!! The following is information I love but really doesn't matter!***
Fortunately for marine aquarists, nitrites and chlorides use the same absorption receptors in fish. Sea water is almost 19,000ppm chlorides (table salt is sodium chloride). Even with water at 19ppm nitrite a marine fish is absorbing 1000 chloride molecules for every one nitrite molecule. In a fresh water aquarium as little as 1ppm nitrite can be lethal to a fish since it will absorb almost all of the nitrites available.
I'm not a fan of artificial ammonia reducers since we want bacteria to consume it not for it to be removed. That said, bacteria are converting the ammonia to nitrite so it's hard to see where this could be the problem. Using Stability pretty well eliminates the possibility that the bacteria was too old or had seen temperature extremes.
I've used Biospira in my QT with a similar HOB filter and haven't had any problems.
I have spent a very large amount of time studying the biology behind how a tank cycles lately. During this research I have seen quite a few posts about fresh water aquarium that were cycled using Stability that had high nitrites but none with salt water. Of course, this could be due to people with salt water fish being less susceptible to nitrite poisoning. As others have pointed out, high nitrites are much less an issue in salt water aquarium than fresh water. In my opinion you should try a different bacteria in a bottle product or add the sponge from you DT to your QT (only because you haven't treated your QT yet).
*** Warning!!! Nerd Alert!!! The following is information I love but really doesn't matter!***
Fortunately for marine aquarists, nitrites and chlorides use the same absorption receptors in fish. Sea water is almost 19,000ppm chlorides (table salt is sodium chloride). Even with water at 19ppm nitrite a marine fish is absorbing 1000 chloride molecules for every one nitrite molecule. In a fresh water aquarium as little as 1ppm nitrite can be lethal to a fish since it will absorb almost all of the nitrites available.
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Mini Coop
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sorry for the wrong name - I guess I don't know what to call the black sponge that I use in the HOB filter . . . lol. I am new, and still learning. I have learned MANY things the hard way, so trying to stay ahead of the curve this time. I will try a different bacteria - I will order it tonight to see if it helps. Good to know that they are not going to die from the nitrite and nitrate count, but still would like to see it go down to where it should be.
I love the nerd alert info you posted! It does matter - i have a freshwater tank too - just glowfish for my kids, but still, all of the marine aquarium information has made me much better at checking that tank and taking better care of it.
I agree with @Brew12 and @melypr1985, try a different bacteria in a bottle product. Because what you are running should be enough for that bio-load.
What model # Aqueon do you have? Do you know what the GPH flow rate is for it? Just wondering if a lack of flow is the limiting factor here.
What model # Aqueon do you have? Do you know what the GPH flow rate is for it? Just wondering if a lack of flow is the limiting factor here.
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Mini Coop
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It is 125 GPH. I would think it would be plenty. Just ordered the aquaforest np pro for the new bacteria. It will be here thursday. hopefully that will help.
The good news: tested the DT tonight - just like @Humblefish told me to do - learn how to do everything manually. I have the API Reef and Saltwater master kits . . . tested EVERYTHING tonight - All was PERFECT! Phosphates at .25/.5 (do I need to do something about that?) and Nitrates around 10/20 ppm, but not bad at all! I am growing some corals while it runs fallow, and they are doing AWESOME. Had to share a little success too!
Brew12
Electrical Gru
That is fantastic! You do know that keeping coral is supposed to be the hard part of this hobby, right?It is 125 GPH. I would think it would be plenty. Just ordered the aquaforest np pro for the new bacteria. It will be here thursday. hopefully that will help.
The good news: tested the DT tonight - just like @Humblefish told me to do - learn how to do everything manually. I have the API Reef and Saltwater master kits . . . tested EVERYTHING tonight - All was PERFECT! Phosphates at .25/.5 (do I need to do something about that?) and Nitrates around 10/20 ppm, but not bad at all! I am growing some corals while it runs fallow, and they are doing AWESOME. Had to share a little success too!
I wouldn't worry about the phosphates if they aren't causing you problems. I don't recall how old your tank is but it is very common for younger aquariums to leach phosphates out of the rock. One of the many contributors to the "ugly" phase new aquariums are supposed to go through.
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Mini Coop
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Hahaha - the corals have been GREAT! I have 3 zoos, a hammer coral, an acan, 2 new stick coral frags from a friends tank, a mushroom cluster and another polyp of some sort (its ugly but it was my first one). They are all growing and doing well. I will post pics tomorrow!That is fantastic! You do know that keeping coral is supposed to be the hard part of this hobby, right?
I wouldn't worry about the phosphates if they aren't causing you problems. I don't recall how old your tank is but it is very common for younger aquariums to leach phosphates out of the rock. One of the many contributors to the "ugly" phase new aquariums are supposed to go through.
Tank was set up in July. I got bad advice from an "expert" friend. @melypr1985 and @Humblefish have kind of followed my short and very intense and frustrating journey. The friend told me freshwater TAP water changes were fine. So that is how the entire tank was actually set up along with the first 2 water changes. The second water change after stocking my tank with 12 fish . . . yeah . . . uh huh. you heard me . . . . friend who works at a well known saltwater store said it was fine . . . ultimately resulted in a huge outbreak of ich. I lost a splendid pseudo, blue jaw trigger, both my clowns, flame angel, blue hippo. I saved my fox face, sailfin and 2 firefish in a panic expensive weekend to set up a QT as fast as possible. So to be on the mend is quite the relief. And now I know a LOT more than most beginners because I have learned the hard way. And I hope to help so that no one else has to go through this kind of loss. I QT all of my corals as well as coral dip no matter HOW much I trust the vendor, and have a set up now, obviously to QT all fish. Just thought you might like some of my story @Brew12 and let you know how much I appreciate your help and feedback along with the others. I would have torn it down and given up by now if it weren't for all of you! Now I am SOOOOO excited for Christmas and to get these poor fish back into their DT!
