Quarantine poll

[KGV]

Most of us believe that quarantining your fish is the best approach to avoid diseases wiping out our entire tank. I think most will agree on that. But ... does it also safe more fish lives overall?

 

[lapin]

Its a toss up. There are too many factors here.
If the fish is sick will a newbie know and try to cure it? Will it die anyway at the store if not purchased.
Are all fish carriers? Petco(big box pet store) vs LFS vs Online Retailers.
Who is buying fish from these places? If the fish is sick will a newbie know and try to cure it? Will it die anyway if not purchased.
How many fish do they all ready have?
What experience do they have?
Did their first round of fish die and they try again.Once again will they die anyway at the store if not purchased.
Is a person with 5 tangs in a 500g tank going to buy fish from Petco and not QT them?
Is the hobby killing more fish faster by removing them from the ocean than would die in the ocean naturally?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

cannot say if quarantining fish wish improve chances to live, because they all come from different sources, for example:

1-delivery by courier - fish is in a bag in a box for a couple days scared with no food
2-fish is bought from LFS 15 minutes away from home
3-Fish is wild caught, so it has PTSD from travelling across the world
4-Fish is captive bred which are docile and easily addaptible
5-Fish is bought/traded with local reefer that also loves his tank and takes good care of it

It is a living thing, a lot can affect it's health, not only just quartantine or not quarantine

 

[Squidward]

Not qurantining will risk the lives of the other fish already in your display tank therefore resulting in more devastation. My fish that have died in qurantine sucks but I can always try again.

 

[EakTheFreak]

Pro Quarantine here! I’ve put through 3 Blue STAR LEOPARD Wrasses, Copperband Butterfly Fish, Yellow Tang, Flame Angel & Bimaculatus Anthias. These are all considered difficult some expert only fish. I used copper & prazipro sometimes general cure and metroplex when needed.

On the more sensitive fish, the CopperBand Butterfly fish and Leopard Wrasses I used the Black Molly freshwater to saltwater approach. I’m only 2 years into the hobby but knock on wood so far NO FISH CASUALTIES!!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I'm 100% pro quarantine.

What most folks don't realize is that the mortality rate for 45 days post-import wild caught marine fish runs from 6 to around 60%, even with a proactive quarantine. The low end is seen from fish from better quality regions; E. Africa, Florida, Hawaii, West Pacific (and captive raised of course!), with the highest rates seen are from the Philippines, Indonesia and Vietnam. The absolute worst fish are what are termed "grade B, SE Asian". These are small, cheap fish, shipped in a tight pack from the three problem regions. I see these in LFS all the time and it makes me cringe: tiny green chromis, skinny Centropyge angels, 1" hepatus tangs, etc. If you DON'T quarantine those fish, not only do you see the mortality in those fish themselves, but they can carry over disease to your main fish collection. Buying the wrong fish and not quarantining them is almost certain disaster. To be blunt, IMO, things now are actually worse than they were in the heyday of cyanide collection the 1970's, a time that almost drove the marine fish hobby into obscurity....I think the only thing keeping the marine hobby going right now is the improvements made in keeping corals, fish are certainly still a huge problem!

Buy the right fish, quarantine them properly, and be proactive about their health!

Jay

 

[puffy127]

I'm 100% pro quarantine.

What most folks don't realize is that the mortality rate for 45 days post-import wild caught marine fish runs from 6 to around 60%, even with a proactive quarantine. The low end is seen from fish from better quality regions; E. Africa, Florida, Hawaii, West Pacific (and captive raised of course!), with the highest rates seen are from the Philippines, Indonesia and Vietnam. The absolute worst fish are what are termed "grade B, SE Asian". These are small, cheap fish, shipped in a tight pack from the three problem regions. I see these in LFS all the time and it makes me cringe: tiny green chromis, skinny Centropyge angels, 1" hepatus tangs, etc. If you DON'T quarantine those fish, not only do you see the mortality in those fish themselves, but they can carry over disease to your main fish collection. Buying the wrong fish and not quarantining them is almost certain disaster. To be blunt, IMO, things now are actually worse than they were in the heyday of cyanide collection the 1970's, a time that almost drove the marine fish hobby into obscurity....I think the only thing keeping the marine hobby going right now is the improvements made in keeping corals, fish are certainly still a huge problem!

Buy the right fish, quarantine them properly, and be proactive about their health!

Jay

What do you suspect causes the high mortality rate from the 3 problem regions even after quarantine? Do you think they still use cyanide?

 

[RobB'z Reef]

Pro Quarantine here! I’ve put through 3 Blue STAR LEOPARD Wrasses, Copperband Butterfly Fish, Yellow Tang, Flame Angel & Bimaculatus Anthias. These are all considered difficult some expert only fish. I used copper & prazipro sometimes general cure and metroplex when needed.

On the more sensitive fish, the CopperBand Butterfly fish and Leopard Wrasses I used the Black Molly freshwater to saltwater approach. I’m only 2 years into the hobby but knock on wood so far NO FISH CASUALTIES!!

How did you feed the copper banded while it was in QT?

 

[EakTheFreak]

How did you feed the copper banded while it was in QT?

I started with live clams in the entire shell and live brine shrimp. He pretty much went for both of those within 2 days. I also started a white worm culture 3 months prior to getting the Copperband butterfly. He ate those like hot cakes. I still feed them to him today in main DT and swear by them being the secret to healthy CBB.

I also put a piece of Live rock in my tank that was loaded with Aptasia and he devoured that which also made him clear it from my DT after QT.

 

[KGV]

I'm 100% pro quarantine.

What most folks don't realize is that the mortality rate for 45 days post-import wild caught marine fish runs from 6 to around 60%, even with a proactive quarantine. The low end is seen from fish from better quality regions; E. Africa, Florida, Hawaii, West Pacific (and captive raised of course!), with the highest rates seen are from the Philippines, Indonesia and Vietnam. The absolute worst fish are what are termed "grade B, SE Asian". These are small, cheap fish, shipped in a tight pack from the three problem regions. I see these in LFS all the time and it makes me cringe: tiny green chromis, skinny Centropyge angels, 1" hepatus tangs, etc. If you DON'T quarantine those fish, not only do you see the mortality in those fish themselves, but they can carry over disease to your main fish collection. Buying the wrong fish and not quarantining them is almost certain disaster. To be blunt, IMO, things now are actually worse than they were in the heyday of cyanide collection the 1970's, a time that almost drove the marine fish hobby into obscurity....I think the only thing keeping the marine hobby going right now is the improvements made in keeping corals, fish are certainly still a huge problem!

Buy the right fish, quarantine them properly, and be proactive about their health!

Jay

@Jay Hemdal This is very interesting and not something I heard before. Is there are way to avoid the sources with poor records and avoid the poor distribution channels? Like, "grade B, SE Asian", is that lingo that fish shops know about and we can ask them? I haven't heard that before, but I would certainly like to read up on these things if there is a resource somewhere.

 

[KGV]

What do you suspect causes the high mortality rate from the 3 problem regions even after quarantine? Do you think they still use cyanide?

Yes, I would love to know more about this!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@Jay Hemdal This is very interesting and not something I heard before. Is there are way to avoid the sources with poor records and avoid the poor distribution channels? Like, "grade B, SE Asian", is that lingo that fish shops know about and we can ask them? I haven't heard that before, but I would certainly like to read up on these things if there is a resource somewhere.

It's tough - the fish sometimes go through multiple channels, so the end purchaser does not know the true origin. Short supply chain fish are always best - captive raised to you, collector to you, etc. Buying fish that are endemic to the better regions helps - yellow tangs (were) from Hawaii for example.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

What do you suspect causes the high mortality rate from the 3 problem regions even after quarantine? Do you think they still use cyanide?

Yes, I strongly suspect cyanide use is still rampant. Another issue is the tight pack they use from those regions, and how long it takes the fish to get from the collecting area to the exporters - they live in plastic bags much of that time.
Think about it - a diver might earn 10 cents for catching a green chromis. If he chases that fish for 5 minutes, it isn't worth it. They need to spread cyanide and swipe up a dozen or so at a time. Net caught black axil chromis from Fiji cost about 10x that of the same size green chromis from Indonesia.

Jay

 

[KGV]

Yes, I strongly suspect cyanide use is still rampant. Another issue is the tight pack they use from those regions, and how long it takes the fish to get from the collecting area to the exporters - they live in plastic bags much of that time.
Think about it - a diver might earn 10 cents for catching a green chromis. If he chases that fish for 5 minutes, it isn't worth it. They need to spread cyanide and swipe up a dozen or so at a time. Net caught black axil chromis from Fiji cost about 10x that of the same size green chromis from Indonesia.

Jay

Wow, I am shocked to hear that!

 

[Azedenkae]

I voted for the 'no' option, but it is not that simple. While there are aspects of quarantining that may make a fish in that quarantine tank more likely to die, I imagine it to be a lot less impactful compared to letting a diseased fish into a display tank, then having that fish wipe itself and a bunch of other fish out. So yeah, I would say quarantining does not kill more fish than not quarantining. Without a 'study' of some sort to determine this with certainty though, I am hesistant to say it with absolute definitiveness.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Most of us believe that quarantining your fish is the best approach to avoid diseases wiping out our entire tank. I think most will agree on that. But ... does it also safe more fish lives overall?

If you set up a qt without proper equipment, filter, skimmer, etc., to maintain water quality OR you are not prepared to do almost 100% water changes almost daily--then your qt, if using medicines that do not allow use of chemical filtration--your qt will turn into a septic sewer and yes you'll kill fish...

On the other hand, if over filter your qt's (because they tend to be small tanks and usually over populated), can do near 100% water changes as needed, provide flow and PVC hiding spots, put a lid on it (!!), and you have hanna testers and follow known medication procedures and the like--IMO qt's are far safer than than the plunk pray method...

 

[Ippyroy]

QT is important. The biggest issue with it is knowing how to do it correctly. It takes a lot of knowledge to do it correctly. Other than doing it perfectly it is a waste of time and will kill more fish IMHO. I prefer to run an observation tank. Put the fish in a small tank and watch it closely for a couple of months. This gets the fish used to you and an opportunity to get it feeding on prepared foods. If the fish is sick, you would then have a chance to try to save it. I do not believe in proactively treating fish that may or may not be sick by noobs like me unless you have someone there who knows what they are doing and is willing to teach you.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

QT is important. The biggest issue with it is knowing how to do it correctly. It takes a lot of knowledge to do it correctly. Other than doing it perfectly it is a waste of time and will kill more fish IMHO. I prefer to run an observation tank. Put the fish in a small tank and watch it closely for a couple of months. This gets the fish used to you and an opportunity to get it feeding on prepared foods. If the fish is sick, you would then have a chance to try to save it. I do not believe in proactively treating fish that may or may not be sick by noobs like me unless you have someone there who knows what they are doing and is willing to teach you.

I agree that observation is a minimum. And avoid sensitive fish to things like ich if your new, like tangs. Problem is that if you don't learn how to properly qt, you're doomed---eventually--if want to add fish once in a while.... The vast majority of persons i've spoken too and that stay in this hobby long run all have stories (of mass death)... and now they qt...

 

[Marc2952]

I will say it depends i used to QT all my fish, but always had some deaths that where out of my control ( lost a flame wrasse that caught popeye because he hit a piefe of pvc pipe too hard, had another wrasse that jumped through a tiny hole where the pump wire went through. Now i only buy exclusively from tsmaquatics.

 

[Ippyroy]

I agree that observation is a minimum. And avoid sensitive fish to things like ich if your new, like tangs. Problem is that if you don't learn how to properly qt, you're doomed---eventually--if want to add fish once in a while.... The vast majority of persons i've spoken too and that stay in this hobby long run all have stories (of mass death)... and now they qt...

I agree with QTing. Start off with observation. Once you get a sick fish and know what it causing the issue, you can try to save it. Odds are it will die. Don't just dump and pray and don't try to be proactive with meds and copper if you don't know exactly what you are doing. There are few people that know what they are doing. I am not even able to tell if a fish is sick or acting strange. When I upgrade this summer I will be able to get some new fish. They will go into an observation tank. I will be posting pics and asking questions to make sure the fish is healthy before I put them in the DT. I will try to medicate a fish if needed. My plan is to learn how to spot issues early and learn how to fix them if possible. Learning to QT is long and complicated. If you don't o it right, you are killing the fish, and you aren't doing anything other than spending money on nothing. If I lived somewhere with other reefers who knew how to QT, I would have them help me and I would have started QTing from the start. I would love to be able to facetime someone who knew what they were doing and were willing to teach me. Alas, that is not the case, and if you don't do it correctly, you aren't doing anything.