Quarantine Tank Question - Too many fish at once?

Kann · Dec 2, 2015

Hello everyone. I just joined R2R this morning. I was looking for some info on QT setups and ich treatment and decided you guys are the best people to ask. Here goes...

I have a 220 mixed reef. It's been set up since May. Some SPS, some LPS, a couple clams.

Fish list include:
- Naso Tang
- Yellow Tang
- Blue Hippo Tang
- Yellow Coris Wrasse
- 5 Banggai Cardinals
- 4 Percula Clowns

The cardinals and clowns have been in the tank since day one. Never had any problems. Over the last few weeks, I've added the tangs and the wrasse. Now the tangs a showing the tell-tale signs of ich.

I'm kicking myself in the rear for not doing more research on QT and doing it the "right" way. Some lessons are best learnt the hard way!

My question for you is this... I have a 40 breeder that I'm going to set up for a long-term QT. I know that I need to get all the fish out of the tank for 72 days to properly treat for ich. That seems like a lot of fish for a 40. I'm thinking I need to set up another QT and split the fish into two groups.

Anyone have any advice?

Thanks in advance.

Kendall

143MPCo · Dec 2, 2015

@melypr1985 @Humblefish might be able to assist.

melypr1985 · Dec 2, 2015

Kann said:
Hello everyone. I just joined R2R this morning. I was looking for some info on QT setups and ich treatment and decided you guys are the best people to ask. Here goes...

I have a 220 mixed reef. It's been set up since May. Some SPS, some LPS, a couple clams.

Fish list include:
- Naso Tang
- Yellow Tang
- Blue Hippo Tang
- Yellow Coris Wrasse
- 5 Banggai Cardinals
- 4 Percula Clowns

The cardinals and clowns have been in the tank since day one. Never had any problems. Over the last few weeks, I've added the tangs and the wrasse. Now the tangs a showing the tell-tale signs of ich.

I'm kicking myself in the rear for not doing more research on QT and doing it the "right" way. Some lessons are best learnt the hard way!

My question for you is this... I have a 40 breeder that I'm going to set up for a long-term QT. I know that I need to get all the fish out of the tank for 72 days to properly treat for ich. That seems like a lot of fish for a 40. I'm thinking I need to set up another QT and split the fish into two groups.

Anyone have any advice?

Thanks in advance.

Kendall

It does seem like a lot but it's temporary and not a forever home. Assuming small size, ample hiding space, adequate filtration and the ability to do large water changes for the first month- you could be fine with that. It's more economical to treat just one QT as well. If you can borrow a 55 for this you'd be in better shape. How big are the tangs and clowns? I have 7 fish in my 40 breeder QT and two are tangs and 1 wrasse.

By the way... it's 76 days to go fallow now. Just so's ya know

Kann · Dec 2, 2015

melypr1985 said:
It does seem like a lot but it's temporary and not a forever home. Assuming small size, ample hiding space, adequate filtration and the ability to do large water changes for the first month- you could be fine with that. It's more economical to treat just one QT as well. If you can borrow a 55 for this you'd be in better shape. How big are the tangs and clowns? I have 7 fish in my 40 breeder QT and two are tangs and 1 wrasse.

By the way... it's 76 days to go fallow now. Just so's ya know

I'm going 90 day... just to make sure!!!

The Naso is fairly good sized... about 5-6". Everything else is fairly small yet. I'll start with the 40 breeder and see how things go. If it gets too cramped or if I run into problems I can always set up another smaller QT for the clowns, cardinals and wrasse. Large, frequent water changes aren't an issue. I can easily store 65 gallons of pre-mixed salt water to have on hand at any give time.

Thanks for the advice! Wish me luck! The hardest part may be catching the fish!!

melypr1985 · Dec 2, 2015

Kann said:
I'm going 90 day... just to make sure!!!

The Naso is fairly good sized... about 5-6". Everything else is fairly small yet. I'll start with the 40 breeder and see how things go. If it gets too cramped or if I run into problems I can always set up another smaller QT for the clowns, cardinals and wrasse. Large, frequent water changes aren't an issue. I can easily store 65 gallons of pre-mixed salt water to have on hand at any give time.

Thanks for the advice! Wish me luck! The hardest part may be catching the fish!!

GOOD LUCK!! lots of it too.... I like your plan and you seem ready. Make sure you have an ammonia alert badge for each QT you set up and a bottled bacteria product to help the tank cycle faster.

Tip on catching all your fish.... drain the tank down to a couple inches of water to reduce movement of the fish. I had to take all my rock out as well as draining the water out all to catch my dwarf angel. You can use this water to fill your QT and put the rest back in the DT. Then fill the rest of the way with fresh saltwater. Then you've just done a large water change. Fresh saltwater can be used in the QT as well of course

Humblefish · Dec 2, 2015

I agree a 40 breeder will work for that bioload. The main issues are going to be keeping the ammonia down and copper up (assuming that is what you are going to use to treat.) I would invest in a Seachem ammonia alert badge for active monitoring. You will need to do regular WCs to control the ammonia, but do be sure to add copper to the replacement water before adding it to the QT so the level doesn't fluctuate too much.

I also suggest using a good HOB or canister filter on your QT, preferably one which utilizes bio-media that can be seeded with nitrifying bacteria. This will help greatly to control the ammonia. Also, make sure all 3 tangs have their own "PVC cave" to cut down on aggression.

And in case you haven't seen it, this thread discusses everything above in more detail: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

Humblefish · Dec 2, 2015

FYI; an Aquaclear 70 or even 110 would work well on a 40 breeder QT. Bigger is better when it comes to these HOBs, because you can always turn the flow down if it's too much.

4FordFamily · Dec 2, 2015

Humblefish said:
I agree a 40 breeder will work for that bioload. The main issues are going to be keeping the ammonia down and copper up (assuming that is what you are going to use to treat.) I would invest in a Seachem ammonia alert badge for active monitoring. You will need to do regular WCs to control the ammonia, but do be sure to add copper to the replacement water before adding it to the QT so the level doesn't fluctuate too much.

I also suggest using a good HOB or canister filter on your QT, preferably one which utilizes bio-media that can be seeded with nitrifying bacteria. This will help greatly to control the ammonia. Also, make sure all 3 tangs have their own "PVC cave" to cut down on aggression.

And in case you haven't seen it, this thread discusses everything above in more detail: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

X2 I did LARGE (80% or greater) daily water changes with lots of fish in my 55 gal QT to battle ammonia until it cycled which was around 2 months. Be prepared for that. You will need to add copper to each one. Invest in lots of salt now. Ammonia is the BIGGEST killer during QT procedures and is to blame for almost all QT issues. The meds, small tank, and many other things get blamed but I would bet the "farm" that ammonia is the killer. DO NOT use Prime, Amquel, or any nitrite nitrate and ammonia detoxifier products while using medication as it will poison your fish. IMO this is the second most common mistake that people make with QT that kills their fish.

Breakthecycle2 · Dec 2, 2015

3FordFamily said:
X2 I did LARGE (80% or greater) daily water changes with lots of fish in my 55 gal QT to battle ammonia until it cycled which was around 2 months. Be prepared for that. You will need to add copper to each one. Invest in lots of salt now. Ammonia is the BIGGEST killer during QT procedures and is to blame for almost all QT issues. The meds, small tank, and many other things get blamed but I would bet the "farm" that ammonia is the killer. DO NOT use Prime, Amquel, or any nitrite nitrate and ammonia detoxifier products while using medication as it will poison your fish. IMO this is the second most common mistake that people make with QT that kills their fish.

Agreed about the ammonia, that's why in all honesty, it's probably better to just keep a tank up and running even with no fish. You could keep the bacteria levels up by feeding the tank every few days or so.

tweeter · Dec 2, 2015

3FordFamily said:
X2 I did LARGE (80% or greater) daily water changes with lots of fish in my 55 gal QT to battle ammonia until it cycled which was around 2 months. Be prepared for that. You will need to add copper to each one. Invest in lots of salt now. Ammonia is the BIGGEST killer during QT procedures and is to blame for almost all QT issues. The meds, small tank, and many other things get blamed but I would bet the "farm" that ammonia is the killer. DO NOT use Prime, Amquel, or any nitrite nitrate and ammonia detoxifier products while using medication as it will poison your fish. IMO this is the second most common mistake that people make with QT that kills their fish.

I did not know that about the Prime, ect. Glad you mentioned it!

Kann · Dec 3, 2015

Wow! Thank you, everyone, for all your help!

I managed to get all the fish out of the 220 and into the 40 breeder QT. I had to remove all the live rock and corals, but I got it done! Any idea how hard it is to find a yellow corris wrasse in a sand-stirred 220 when he dives into the sand??

I have meds (Cupramine and Prozi Pro) on the way. I premixed a 65 gallon batch of water so I'm ready for any ammonia spike. I had an Emperor 400 sitting on the shelf. The bio-wheels have been in the sump since the tank was set up in May so there hopefully won't be much of a cycle. We'll see...

Thanks again to everyone!

4FordFamily · Dec 3, 2015

Kann said:
Wow! Thank you, everyone, for all your help!

I managed to get all the fish out of the 220 and into the 40 breeder QT. I had to remove all the live rock and corals, but I got it done! Any idea how hard it is to find a yellow corris wrasse in a sand-stirred 220 when he dives into the sand??

I have meds (Cupramine and Prozi Pro) on the way. I premixed a 65 gallon batch of water so I'm ready for any ammonia spike. I had an Emperor 400 sitting on the shelf. The bio-wheels have been in the sump since the tank was set up in May so there hopefully won't be much of a cycle. We'll see...

Thanks again to everyone!

Finding wrasse that burrow in sand is a BEAR.

I've always removed all rock and re-aquascaped because every time I tried to cut corners I spent 2-4x the amount of time and MUCH more stress. With all the rock out and most of the water drained it is manageable.

Kann · Dec 3, 2015

One more question... I forgot to mention the fact that my cardinals just had babies. I have the babies in one of those air powered hang-in-the-back nurseries on the 220 DT. I know they need to be moved from the DT or they may continue to be host to ich. My question is how well will they fare in the QT with the ich treatment? Does anyone have any experience with baby fish and ich treatment?

Thank you!

Humblefish · Dec 3, 2015

Kann said:
My question is how well will they fare in the QT with the ich treatment? Does anyone have any experience with baby fish and ich treatment?

You could run them thru TTM using just small buckets: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

Just be sure you have ich, and not velvet, as TTM does not treat the latter.

Kann · Dec 3, 2015

Humblefish said:
You could run them thru TTM using just small buckets: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

Just be sure you have ich, and not velvet, as TTM does not treat the latter.

Great idea! I have a 10 gallon tank sitting empty. Maybe I'll pick up another and use those. Thanks!

Betty1964 · Dec 3, 2015

Where are you located? I see you are in Iowa, I am in north western Missouri. If you are near me, I can lend you a 55 for a few months. I also would have a couple of ten gallons for your babies.

Kann · Dec 3, 2015

Betty1964 said:
Where are you located? I see you are in Iowa, I am in north western Missouri. If you are near me, I can lend you a 55 for a few months. I also would have a couple of ten gallons for your babies.

Thanks for the offer but I'm in northeast Iowa. I appreciate your kindness!

omykiss001 · Dec 3, 2015

The instant ocean bio-spira cycled my QT overnight. A full bottle that has not expired should take care of any ammonia issues and no massive daily water changes in a 40 gallon. I was uncertain how well it would work, but I was even more sick of battling ammonia and keeping it in check. Went from no nitrite or nitrate to have zero ammonia and detectable levels of nitrite and nitrate in 24 hours, just a suggestion as I noticed the stress level,in my fish drop without being in the tank every day draining 50% or more of the water. I swear by the stuff now, just check its fresh as they print the expiration date on the bottom.

Humblefish · Dec 3, 2015

@Betty1964 Very kind offer of you, to help out a fellow reefer in need.

Brian Kim · Dec 3, 2015

omykiss001 said:
The instant ocean bio-spira cycled my QT overnight. A full bottle that has not expired should take care of any ammonia issues and no massive daily water changes in a 40 gallon. I was uncertain how well it would work, but I was even more sick of battling ammonia and keeping it in check. Went from no nitrite or nitrate to have zero ammonia and detectable levels of nitrite and nitrate in 24 hours, just a suggestion as I noticed the stress level,in my fish drop without being in the tank every day draining 50% or more of the water. I swear by the stuff now, just check its fresh as they print the expiration date on the bottom.

This, I also had a really hard time with water perimeter when I first set up my QT tank, had to do large w/c on a daily basis. I've Tried Dr. Tim's, Cycle and Fritz Zyme 7 since those were the only ones my LFS had and none of them worked. Bio Spira arrived 3 days later and it literally instantly cycled the tank. Now I just do 2 w/c a month just to keep the tank clean and provide them with new cleaner water but the perimeters are always spot on.