Quarantine - to Cu or not to Cu?

[Barry_Cuda]

Disclaimer - I know this is probably a sensitive topic, but I'd like to hear what various people have to say about it.

My QT is finally cycled and ready, so I just got back from the LFS with a Banggai cardinal that will be my first fish. Per the acclimation & quarantine sticky, I've been planning on 30 days in copper, but I have read that copper is stressful in itself, and I've seen a few posts lately here and there where people mentioned losing fish after 20+ days in copper. What's the current thinking on this? Is observation & monitoring in quarantine enough, or is it still strongly recommended to treat new fish prophylactically with copper?

 

[Tangina20]

Following

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I always treat new fish now. I no longer use Cu. My preference chloroquine phosphate. Only a few fish can't tolerate, but for the ones that can it is a lot milder than Cu. Only negative is accessibility.

 

[infinite0180]

Do yourself a favor and treat with copper. I watched a fish for a month and when i put it in my DT it was dead in 10 hours and now my clowns are living with ick. Unless you have alot of experience observing fish behavior then just treat them. I would have bet $100 that my fish was healthy...

 

[Brett newell]

I also use chloroquine phosphate instead of copper. I also add metroplex in conjunction with the CP.

 

[Instigate]

Disclaimer - I know this is probably a sensitive topic, but I'd like to hear what various people have to say about it.

My QT is finally cycled and ready, so I just got back from the LFS with a Banggai cardinal that will be my first fish. Per the acclimation & quarantine sticky, I've been planning on 30 days in copper, but I have read that copper is stressful in itself, and I've seen a few posts lately here and there where people mentioned losing fish after 20+ days in copper. What's the current thinking on this? Is observation & monitoring in quarantine enough, or is it still strongly recommended to treat new fish prophylactically with copper?

Depends on the fish and whether or not you can get Chloroquine Phosphate. I can't get it from a vet without an office visit with the fish so I'm much more inclined to use copper. There is this chart to help you choose the correct type of copper or maybe decide to go another route: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-and-treatment-guidelines-with-chart.283450/

I QT everything wet. For fish this usually means a 30 day treatment of copper and two rounds of prazi or GC. But for my CBB for example I chose to just do TTM and a FW dip. For your Banggai I would do the 30 days in copper with a couple rounds of prazi. These parasites can be living off the fish and show no symptoms until there is a stress event that makes the fishes immune system less able to fight off the parasites.

@HotRocks has outlined about as bulletproof of a QT procedure as you can here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/ Though it's not for the faint of heart.

 

[Swoody]

I guess there many different points of view on this... My fish get quarantined and treated with a fresh water dip when newly arrived... then unless noted and needed immediately for any obvious illness, they will get Praziquantel or General Cure treatments x2 once eating well ... and then we wait and watch for 40 days total.... I have never had to treat a fish for ich or velvet... I am fully stocked and ready to go antibiotic wise and copper and the Hanna tester etc... just have never had to go that route yet! Lucky .... sure I’ll take it!

 

[falconut]

I've been burned before, fish looked great in QT, then shortly after adding to DT, flared up with ich. So all my new fish get treated with CU. I'd rather the new fish not make it, than infect all my other fish. I usually have the fish eating well then start treatment. Also do 2 treatments of prazi in QT. Just my opinion.

 

[Philipgonzales3]

I've been burned before, fish looked great in QT, then shortly after adding to DT, flared up with ich. So all my new fish get treated with CU. I'd rather the new fish not make it, than infect all my other fish. I usually have the fish eating well then start treatment. Also do 2 treatments of prazi in QT. Just my opinion.

Just curious if the instructions on Seachem Cupramine Copper are good to go by or if there is a guide somewhere on R2R of how to steadily increase dosage to the maximum.

 

[HotRocks]

Disclaimer - I know this is probably a sensitive topic, but I'd like to hear what various people have to say about it.

My QT is finally cycled and ready, so I just got back from the LFS with a Banggai cardinal that will be my first fish. Per the acclimation & quarantine sticky, I've been planning on 30 days in copper, but I have read that copper is stressful in itself, and I've seen a few posts lately here and there where people mentioned losing fish after 20+ days in copper. What's the current thinking on this? Is observation & monitoring in quarantine enough, or is it still strongly recommended to treat new fish prophylactically with copper?

I also QT everything wet and treat all fish prophylactically. The most important thing to do is have all meds you could possibly need on hand even more so if you plan to only treat if a known issue is observed instead of prophylactic treatment. Things can go south very quickly.

The main issue with only treating if symptoms arise IMO is there are several fish that can be asymptomatic and still be carrying the parasites or whatever ails them.

 

[HotRocks]

Just curious if the instructions on Seachem Cupramine Copper are good to go by or if there is a guide somewhere on R2R of how to steadily increase dosage to the maximum.

I would take your total amount needed and spread out over 3-5 days in order to ramp up, I personally like to split the daily amount into am and pm doses each day as well. So a 3 day ramp would be 6 total doses etc.

Just a heads up, if you know you have velvet present I would recommend using an accelerated ramp over 48 hours.

Highly recommend a Hanna tester for monitoring Cu level. Testing is very very important with all copper products, it is poison and the toxic level for each product is not much above the therapeutic mark.

 

[Philipgonzales3]

I would take your total amount needed and spread out over 3-5 days in order to ramp up, I personally like to split the daily amount into am and pm doses each day as well. So a 3 day ramp would be 6 total doses etc.

Just a heads up, if you know you have velvet present I would recommend using an accelerated ramp over 48 hours.

Highly recommend a Hanna tester for monitoring Cu level. Testing is very very important with all copper products, it is poison and the toxic level for each product is not much above the therapeutic mark.

Thanks for the info. I've been doing some reading on this forum and was initially going to not quarantine my first set of fish but now my mind is made up that I should QT all fish proactively. I am going to order copper, some Prazipro, the Hannah checker and some ammonia badges. I'm going to start with 2 clown fish that are about 1" big in a 20 gallon Long. Sound like a good plan?

 

[DarkSky]

I do Cu. I start with two rounds of GC spaced out by 3 days, then 30 of copper after a 5 day ramp up. I've never had any issues aside from one wrasse who got an infected swim bladder.

Doing it right will save you so much heartache and trouble later.

 

[HotRocks]

Thanks for the info. I've been doing some reading on this forum and was initially going to not quarantine my first set of fish but now my mind is made up that I should QT all fish proactively. I am going to order copper, some Prazipro, the Hannah checker and some ammonia badges. I'm going to start with 2 clown fish that are about 1" big in a 20 gallon Long. Sound like a good plan?

Yes. I prefer chelated copper such as copper power, over ionic.

It's wise to have focus on hand to medicate food for internal parasites.
You can use Metroplex + focus or General Cure + focus.

I've never really had bacterial issues with clowns but having Kanaplex and Furan-2 on hand JIC is a good idea as well.

 

[Dmb092182]

Thanks for the info. I've been doing some reading on this forum and was initially going to not quarantine my first set of fish but now my mind is made up that I should QT all fish proactively. I am going to order copper, some Prazipro, the Hannah checker and some ammonia badges. I'm going to start with 2 clown fish that are about 1" big in a 20 gallon Long. Sound like a good plan?

I would use copper power. It is chelated copper and it is not as harsh as ionic copper. HotRocks has a chart for dosage on a sticky.

 

[Philipgonzales3]

Yes. I prefer chelated copper such as copper power, over ionic.

It's wise to have focus on hand to medicate food for internal parasites.
You can use Metroplex + focus or General Cure + focus.

I've never really had bacterial issues with clowns but having Kanaplex and Furan-2 on hand JIC is a good idea as well.

So basically I need to spread out my doses of copper power to equal 1.5 to 2ppm over 3 days? I'll also pick up the metroflex + focus. Is the metroflex + focus used only of symptoms appear or proactively as well?

 

[HotRocks]

So basically I need to spread out my doses of copper power to equal 1.5 to 2ppm over 3 days? I'll also pick up the metroflex + focus. Is the metroflex + focus used only of symptoms appear or proactively as well?

I predose the tank to 1.0ppm then add fish. Then ramp up to 1.75ppm over three days.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

I feed medicated food prophylactically. The reason why is sometimes by the time you see white stringy poop, the fish has stopped eating and it's very hard to erradicate intestinal parasites if the fish is not eating.

 

[Philipgonzales3]

I predose the tank to 1.0ppm then add fish. Then ramp up to 1.75ppm over three days.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

I feed medicated food prophylactically. The reason why is sometimes by the time you see white stringy poop, the fish has stopped eating and it's very hard to erradicate intestinal parasites if the fish is not eating.

Ok, perfect. Thank you. I will read the post. Thank you for the specific advice.

 

[PatW]

Quarantine is a really good idea. Without it, you can get something like marine velvet into your tank and that can murder a whole tank quickly.

For quarantine, there are two approaches: prophylactic treatment or observation.

Prophylactic treatment has the advantage of eliminating whole classes of disease. But fish you get are stressed and treating can push them over the edge.

Observation can work well also, but needs to be done for a longer time.

Another advantage of quarantine is babying the fish. They have been stressed. Here they are in a low stress situation. I get them accustomed to the foods I feed. And I feed a little at a time but often. I want to tame them and fatten them up. I want to see the fish get noticeably plumper and confident. After 5 weeks of quarntine and nearly unlimited food, they are ready to face the rigors of the display.

 

[falconut]

I've always had good results with cupramine, so I just stick with what works for me. As the other said ramp it up slowly. I usually take the total and split it into 5 or 6. But, I usually have a piece of rock in the tank, so I have to add some extra to achieve 0.45 - 0.5.

Definitely use the ammonia alerts, I know the test kits don't work with cupramine (not sure about all copper).