Question about CP

[JenniferMcK]

I recently was given some cp to use for quarantine on new fish. I've never used CP but have done some research on it. My question is can I start my qt up with biospira then add the CP and have a successful treatment? There's alot of controversy on bacteria breaking down CP and I just want some advice and input on it from someone that uses it. Thanks

 

[HotRocks]

I recently was given some cp to use for quarantine on new fish. I've never used CP but have done some research on it. My question is can I start my qt up with biospira then add the CP and have a successful treatment? There's alot of controversy on bacteria breaking down CP and I just want some advice and input on it from someone that uses it. Thanks

Personally I only use CP in a tank with no working biofilter. I'm not sure how much degradation actually occurs with a working biofilter.

The issue is there is no easy way to test the concentration of CP during treatment.

So the best thing I figure we can do is use minimal light, no biofilter, in order to prevent any degradation. I use prime to control ammonia.

 

[JenniferMcK]

Personally I only use CP in a tank with no working biofilter. I'm not sure how much degradation actually occurs with a working biofilter.

The issue is there is no easy way to test the concentration of CP during treatment.

So the best thing I figure we can do is use minimal light, no biofilter, in order to prevent any degradation. I use prime to control ammonia.

Thanks again. You answered my next question about ammonia control. I think I'm just going to stick to copper power. At least then I don't have to be paranoid about ammonia.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

I use biospira with cp regularly. I also perform water changes to my qt regularly with cp dosed at 50 mg/ gal. To offset any possible loss of cp. This has worked well for me.

Biofilm can break down cp, but I feel it takes some time for the bacteria to evolve to a point where it causes issues. I reset and sterilize my tanks in between uses, not using a permanent qt with cp.

I have spoken with one zoo that uses cp in established treatment tanks and they said testing has not shown a drop in CP concentration happening within 30 days of dosing.

None if this proves its effective to use biospira with CP, but it has not failed me yet, even with symptomatic fish on several occasions.

 

[HotRocks]

I use biospira with cp regularly. I also perform water changes regularly with cp dosed at 50 mg/ gal. This has worked well for me.

Biofilm can break down cp, but I feel it takes some time for the bacteria to evolve to a point where it causes issues. I reset and sterilize my tanks in between uses, not using a permanent qt with cp.

I have spoken with one zoo that uses cp in established treatment tanks and they said testing has not shown a drop in CP concentration happening within 30 days of dosing.

None if this proves its effective to use biospira with CP, but it has not failed me yet, even with symptomatic fish on several occasions.

That is good to know. It's the unknown and not being able to test it "in home" that makes me uneasy.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

That is good to know. It's the unknown and not being able to test it "in home" that makes me uneasy.

That is definately the biggest drawback to using CP.

 

[Big G]

Here's some info on using Prime from Humblefish that may help while using CP and other treatments you may need to apply in the now and future. Best of luck with your fish:

from Humblefish:

CP + Prime = Fine

Antibiotics + Prime = Fine

Prazipro + Prime = Questionable, although I would avoid mixing the two.

Chelated Copper (Copper Power) + Prime = Questionable, although I would avoid mixing the two.

Cupramine + Prime = Deadly

 

[JenniferMcK]

That is good to know. It's the unknown and not being able to test it "in home" that makes me uneasy.

Exactly my thoughts

 

[JenniferMcK]

I use biospira with cp regularly. I also perform water changes to my qt regularly with cp dosed at 50 mg/ gal. To offset any possible loss of cp. This has worked well for me.

Biofilm can break down cp, but I feel it takes some time for the bacteria to evolve to a point where it causes issues. I reset and sterilize my tanks in between uses, not using a permanent qt with cp.

I have spoken with one zoo that uses cp in established treatment tanks and they said testing has not shown a drop in CP concentration happening within 30 days of dosing.

None if this proves its effective to use biospira with CP, but it has not failed me yet, even with symptomatic fish on several occasions.

I think I may try a batch of fish just see how it goes. I just want to add the biospira first then wait a few days and then dose the CP. I was thinking of doing 23-30% water changes everyday to keep the levels up.

 

[JenniferMcK]

Here's some info on using Prime from Humblefish that may help while using CP and other treatments you may need to apply in the now and future. Best of luck with your fish:

from Humblefish:

CP + Prime = Fine

Antibiotics + Prime = Fine

Prazipro + Prime = Questionable, although I would avoid mixing the two.

Chelated Copper (Copper Power) + Prime = Questionable, although I would avoid mixing the two.

Cupramine + Prime = Deadly

Thank you!

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

I think I may try a batch of fish just see how it goes. I just want to add the biospira first then wait a few days and then dose the CP. I was thinking of doing 23-30% water changes everyday to keep the levels up.

I've never done that much water change though it cant hurt anything. I usually do 25 or 50 percent every 3 to 4 days. I use a 5 gallon bucket every time, so it depends on what size the qt is. Make sure to figure out the exact gallons of the tank and your water change vessel and dose accurately!

 

[Spar]

Here's some info on using Prime from Humblefish that may help while using CP and other treatments you may need to apply in the now and future. Best of luck with your fish:
from Humblefish:
CP + Prime = Fine
Antibiotics + Prime = Fine
Prazipro + Prime = Questionable, although I would avoid mixing the two.
Chelated Copper (Copper Power) + Prime = Questionable, although I would avoid mixing the two.
Cupramine + Prime = Deadly

When saying Prime, is that universal for other de-ammonia products? Ex. is AmQuel off limits as well?

 

[JenniferMcK]

When saying Prime, is that universal for other de-ammonia products? Ex. is AmQuel off limits as well?

All ammonia products do the same thing so I'm thinking universal. Amquel is ok.

 

[JenniferMcK]

I've never done that much water change though it cant hurt anything. I usually do 25 or 50 percent every 3 to 4 days. I use a 5 gallon bucket every time, so it depends on what size the qt is. Make sure to figure out the exact gallons of the tank and your water change vessel and dose accurately!

Ok thanks for that. I'm starting a treatment on a clown right now that's been in copper power for 4 days therapeutic and just took a turn for the worst. Dosed abx in water nothing noticeable on the fish except shredded fins and the area around the gills looks like it's deteriorating. Gave it a methylene blue bath bc of heavy breathing and dropped into CP at 80 mg. It actually started swimming a bit after about 10 minutes so I'm hoping this works. I know 30 days is protocall, if I were to leave in cp for 15 days and drop into sterile tank, would that be sufficient? @HotRocks Your opinion as well?

 

[bluprntguy]

I used CP to treat all my fish on arrival a few years ago. I didn't have any failures. I get that you can't test, but you do know what you are dosing initially and with water changes. It's similar to prazipro, you can't test for that either.

Also, remember with CP that you can dose significantly more than the target therapeutic level and it won't be toxic to the fish. If in doubt, dose it on the higher end to insure effectiveness.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Ok thanks for that. I'm starting a treatment on a clown right now that's been in copper power for 4 days therapeutic and just took a turn for the worst. Dosed abx in water nothing noticeable on the fish except shredded fins and the area around the gills looks like it's deteriorating. Gave it a methylene blue bath bc of heavy breathing and dropped into CP at 80 mg. It actually started swimming a bit after about 10 minutes so I'm hoping this works. I know 30 days is protocall, if I were to leave in cp for 15 days and drop into sterile tank, would that be sufficient? @HotRocks Your opinion as well?

I have never used CP dosed at 80 mg/gal though that is the recommended upper limit. 15 days in CP should be sufficient if the fish is transferred to a sterile qt. I always follow up with a long observation to be sure.

 

[JenniferMcK]

I have never used CP dosed at 80 mg/gal though that is the recommended upper limit. 15 days in CP should be sufficient if the fish is transferred to a sterile qt. I always follow up with a long observation to be sure.

Thanks for that. So it actually made it through the night. And it's swimming. I honestly didn't think it would make it. I had tried everything else I always use and it was just looking rough and went downhill so fast I thought it would die overnight. But she's swimming around. I say she bc she's about 3 inches so I'm sure she's female. I'm going to watch her in the 80 mg and see how she tolerates it and drop it down a little if she doesn't but it was a last ditch effort and I thought she was a gonna die anyway so I thought with how bad she was to give her the biggest dose. Thanks for all your info. If I have any more questions can I ask you? This is honestly the first time I've used CP so I'm weary. I've always used copper power

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Glad shes hanging on, ask anything you want!

 

[JenniferMcK]

Glad shes hanging on, ask anything you want!

So around her girls it looks really rough. I'll try to post a pic in a bit. But it almost looks like her gills are ate up, like deteriorating I'm not sure why but should I dose any abx in with the CP?

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

First, rule out ammonia.

Have you checked for flukes? I would rule out or confirm flukes via fwd next.

Have you seen any signs of velvet, brook or anything else? If not it may be best to get her out of CP and into nfg. It is possible to dose abx with cp. I use furan 2 if I have to run abx with cp.

Post a pic if you can get one.