Question about lighting cost: Led and T5

[hrdneglcry]

Is there a big savings or a worthwhile savings betweem T5 and Led? Also are the calculators of BRS accurate in finding out the electrical cost if the equipment running on an aquarium?

 

[bushdoc]

T5 will not only cost you more in electrical bill than LED, but you will have to buy new bulbs every 12 months or earlier, so you have to add that to running costs.

 

[Bpb]

It’s too difficult to quantify. If you get a top of the line t5 fixture, swap your bulbs at least once a year, and compare to leds bought for minimum coverage, end up with good ones (as opposed to lemons), and avoid constantly “upgrading” to new generation models, it may be even Steven’s or slightly cheaper favoring leds over the 5-8 year time frame. Just depends on your unique situation.

These hypothetical cost scenarios rarely apply to anyone because most reefers either don’t keep the same fixtures for 5-8 years, nor do they stick with one bulb combo and never experiment. People tend to change lights more often than they change cell phones, so it usually ends up a moot point.

I would always advise picking the best thing you can within your budget, and not worry if something is 2% cheaper over the lifetime of the fixture.

 

[Crustaceon]

It depends on the leds. If you're spending $2k every other years for super snazzy leds with wifi and coffee making functionality, then there won't be a cost savings vs t5. If you go the bare bones "black box" route every few years, you'll save money vs. t5.

 

[Spare time]

I am going to warn you now, the T5 supremacists will pounce on this like rabid starving animals. Once they (or worse the MH supremacists) come, good luck having a reasonable discussion. I swear these threads always turn into a 10 page fight for no good reason.


As for cost, its depends on how you use the item. LEDs can last a very long time, assuming you take care of them (clean dust out of them and not running them at 100% all the time). In this scenario, yes they are far more cost effective. For some reason, many people assume that LED means buying the most expensive light on the market which is just ridiculous. It is like saying that you need to buy a Ferrari in order to commute to work everyday. You can light a 24x24inch area for as low as $95 with a noopsyche mini (which puts out an incredible amount of par).

 

[nereefpat]

Is there a big savings or a worthwhile savings betweem T5 and Led?

Big savings, if starting from scratch? Outside of the extreme examples, no.

Also are the calculators of BRS accurate in finding out the electrical cost if the equipment running on an aquarium?

It looks like the electrical cost calculator is just a spreadsheet. So as long as you put in the right information:
1. just add up watts for each device
2. how long each device is on
3. input the correct electrical rate from your power company

It should work fine.

I will say that lighting is usually the biggest power draw for a reef tank, and LEDs are harder to predict since they aren't full on/off.

What tank dimensions are you trying to light? Will you keep SPS corals? What is your budget for a light?

 

[Troylee]

A watt is a watt… 600 watts of leds like “3 radion xr30’s” is the same as 600 watts of t5’s.. you’re gonna get better coverage with t5’s but have to replace bulbs every 12 months or so.. I honestly think if you cover your tank adequately with leds, mh, or t5 it’s about the same to run them.. it’s bulb replacement that saves with leds.. and less heat..

 

[Crustaceon]

I am going to warn you now, the T5 supremacists will pounce on this like rabid starving animals. Once they (or worse the MH supremacists) come, good luck having a reasonable discussion. I swear these threads always turn into a 10 page fight for no good reason.


As for cost, its depends on how you use the item. LEDs can last a very long time, assuming you take care of them (clean dust out of them and not running them at 100% all the time). In this scenario, yes they are far more cost effective. For some reason, many people assume that LED means buying the most expensive light on the market which is just ridiculous. It is like saying that you need to buy a Ferrari in order to commute to work everyday. You can light a 24x24inch area for as low as $95 with a noopsyche mini (which puts out an incredible amount of par).

Exactly. People fanboy HARD in this hobby. The reality is, yes, t5 is good. So is halide, so is pretty much any led in this hobby that can put out sufficient par to reach your corals. The question is, cost to service the light fixture and electricity cost. Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who grew acros quite well with a finnex stingray 2 that was installed only a few inches over the coral. The "value" is can a light meet your expectations or not and does it do a better job in your particular circumstance. In my case, t5 was an inferior option to two viparspectra fixtures.

 

[oreo54]

A watt is a watt… 600 watts of leds like “3 radion xr30’s” is the same as 600 watts of t5’s..

Not really...
You aren't taking into account a bunch of factors. The most important being "watt efficiency".

Current LEDs convert more electrons to photons per watt than t5/MH.
HPS is close.

To use lumens as an example. Modern whites have an efficacy of >130 lumens/watt.
t5's are around 100 lumens/watt.

To put it simply you get more par/watt w/ leds than any other popular light assuming quality emitters.
Then there is err.. focus..

Now crummy leds are another story.

Less heat directed at the tank. Really applies more to mh's and slightly for t5's having the "power supplies" in the light itself closest to the tank.

Modern ballasts/power supplies/ led drivers are pretty similar in efficiency.

As to costs using high grade leds and high grade t5/mh fixures over 5 years of bulb replacements (every 18 months)
your costs are the same roughly. Even treating "black boxes" as bulbs has a slight cost advantage.

Advantage to t5/mh is after the 5 year replacement you have "new" lights" barring few if any ballast failures.

I don't believe modern electronic ballasts are much better than current switching power supplies (heart of the led) so should fail about at the same rate.

Don't ignore that they "look" completely different. One flat and static, one more 3d and dynamic.
Well unless you go w/ some of the more diffused leds.

 

[oreo54]

Big savings, if starting from scratch? Outside of the extreme examples, no.


It looks like the electrical cost calculator is just a spreadsheet. So as long as you put in the right information:
1. just add up watts for each device
2. how long each device is on
3. input the correct electrical rate from your power company

It should work fine.

I will say that lighting is usually the biggest power draw for a reef tank, and LEDs are harder to predict since they aren't full on/off.

Aquarium Power Consumption. Energy Cost of a Fish Tank

Ever wonder just how much energy your aquarium uses? Here we take a look at the power requirements of the fish tank.

www.algone.com

Power usage, holy crap!

Hi there, Ive posted a few times about my current tank its a 150 Gallon SC. My wife recently brought up how much our electric bill is up, and i assumed it was related to covid and the kids and i being home all day.. Today i was doing some cabling cleanup on my tank and i decided to measure...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Spare time]

Exactly. People fanboy HARD in this hobby. The reality is, yes, t5 is good. So is halide, so is pretty much any led in this hobby that can put out sufficient par to reach your corals. The question is, cost to service the light fixture and electricity cost. Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who grew acros quite well with a finnex stingray 2 that was installed only a few inches over the coral. The "value" is can a light meet your expectations or not and does it do a better job in your particular circumstance. In my case, t5 was an inferior option to two viparspectra fixtures.

Its just so funny because all of the options work well. It is simply down to what the user prefers in terms of features. For me, I couldn't hang a light nor have a mini heater above the tank, so t5 and metal halides were not an option in any of the tanks I have had. But, that doesn't mean those lights are bad at growing coral. The only likely difference in just the light source itself (i.e. not mounting height, not spread, not shimmer, etc.) is that LEDs can be more efficient per dollar in terms of growing power due to the extreme customization of color (i.e. more blue = more the quicker one can hit photosaturation, despite what some claim about full spectrum being the best for coral growth rates). But guess what, they all grow coral just fine.

​

See Comparative performance of light emitting plasma (LEP) and light emitting diode (LED) in ex situ aquaculture of scleractinian corals

 

[Smite]

That's a pretty broad question so you'll end up with varying answers.

Specifically just based on energy usage the LEDS are possibly cheaper to run. In my experience the T5 vs LED savings depend on what you're trying to light in regards to coral type and tank dimensions/rockscape. High light demands and shading issues from vertical growth or structures and LED investment starts to add up and offset savings.

I'd suggest looking for a tank you'd like to emulate here on R2R. Maybe start with TOTM winners. See what fixtures they use. Maybe search for tanks near your tank's dimensions. See what type of light they use. How many fixtures (or lamps) they use to get good coverage for your tank type. That will give you a good (also more specific) starting point. That will allow you to use that calculator better for energy consumption.

For t5: initial cost of fixture and lamps, lamp cost every 12 months (although I feel like BRS had a video about lamp life when they were more about t5 sales; they could go longer for the most part). *Potentially LED supplemental bars if you like the LED blue viewing. Don't need to be expensive types from BRS.

LEDS: Softie/lps with a mellow scape, BRS # are probably fine for fixture qty. Otherwise go off your favorite tank's # of led. Total up your costs of that lighting package.

Weigh the two costs against each other and you should have a good idea which way you want to go. Sometimes you gotta see them in person so hopefully you got some local reefers or a LFS with multiple lighting types on their displays.

 

[Bpb]

Brace yourselves for the “UVB” crowd that will likely enter soon.

 

[Smite]

Haha everyones locked and loaded over here. Hopefully peeps can keep it about the specific question asked so the OP doesn't get lost in the mix.

 

[matt_work27]

Is there a big savings or a worthwhile savings betweem T5 and Led? Also are the calculators of BRS accurate in finding out the electrical cost if the equipment running on an aquarium?

I feel like something like the aquatic life t5 hybrid is the best way to go. You get the run ur leds at a lower percentage so they last longer and u should get really good spread. Only have to replace a few bulbs also. Maybe best isn't the right word, but a very good option

 

[nereefpat]

Aquarium Power Consumption. Energy Cost of a Fish Tank

Ever wonder just how much energy your aquarium uses? Here we take a look at the power requirements of the fish tank.

www.algone.com

Power usage, holy crap!

Hi there, Ive posted a few times about my current tank its a 150 Gallon SC. My wife recently brought up how much our electric bill is up, and i assumed it was related to covid and the kids and i being home all day.. Today i was doing some cabling cleanup on my tank and i decided to measure...

www.reef2reef.com

So, that's what I meant. OP there is running 3 AI Primes, which on paper would be 3 x 59 watts = 177 watts. But with them not cranked all the way they total 84 watts.

 

[oreo54]

Is there a big savings or a worthwhile savings betweem T5 and Led? Also are the calculators of BRS accurate in finding out the electrical cost if the equipment running on an aquarium?

Now to actually sort of answer your question.. Assuming lights are 50% of your total daily kWh.
Also assume you can run leds at 75% of the 100% of a t5 array.
You "save" like 12% on daily usage (is that right?)
And..

while a large aquarium (55 Gallons) needs 200 – 400 kWh per year.

Large, funny..

USA, June 2022: The price of electricity is 0.175 U.S. Dollar per kWh for households and 0.136 U.S. Dollar for businesses which includes all components of the electricity bill such as the cost of power, distribution and taxes.

$35-$70 and you save 12%..
$4.20-$8.40 savings per year

Again, varies by area and in this economy, by gouging month costs.. (sorry couldn't resist)

Won't even go into the heating debate. Not really a t5/led thing.

Now if you think you will save enough $'s to go from cheap t5's (hort fixtures) to primo leds.. well no.

Again you need to live with the tank..choose accordingly. They all work.

Sorry I think this point is all too often overlooked.

You aren't picking a 1970's oil fired furnace over a current 95% nat gas one with climate controls..

Hmm forgot one thing.. the 25% less watts assumes the total of ramp up/ down ect.
In other words equal number of photons per day.

OH, calculator is as accurate as the data you feed it btw starting with your $/kWh and asst taxes/fees based on useage.
You can ignore fixed costs though.
My cost is .59/day fixed and .136/kWh
I can ignore the .59 since it isn't dependent on useage.
Say 200w 12hr/day/12mo = $119.19
Led watts (on/off) 150 = $89.39

$29.80/yr is what "I'd" expect to save

SADLY I'd spend more on fixed costs that are not dependent on anything but my existence.

 

[oreo54]

So, that's what I meant. OP there is running 3 AI Primes, which on paper would be 3 x 59 watts = 177 watts. But with them not cranked all the way they total 84 watts.

Adding ramp up/down yea gets complicated fast..
At dawn/dusk for an hour each you could only be pulling 20-30 watts.
Of course if those watts are 100% blue ( like 100% PUR) that is an advantage.
A t5 (assuming not the dimming/program ballasts) pulls the same watts hour after hour until turned off.
All these simple questions get complicated fast.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

i have multiple tanks, been using t5 20+ years and halides 35+ years (with vho actinics). Ive got one tank with g5 xr30's now for a year or so.....
according to the corals , they all work

according to my eye ,the halides/vho still takes the cake. but its the most painful to implement, the leds huge advantage is lower heat ,more so than much lower watts.. i would say a 250 halide is about the same as a 200 watt xr30.

im using ballasts from the 80's +90's so i would say thier long term value for both t5 and halide is pretty hard to beat, as we really dont know how long the leds really last... will a xr30 still work in 30 years, hard to tell, if so with no bulb changes its a sure fire win economically to go led. Will the old halide / T5 ballast and reflector be good as new every year with just a bulb change?

 

[piranhaman00]

I like how people say leds last a long time…but only if you don’t run them at 100%. Why is that an option then?

I use T5 and I think the cost is even. LEDs last maybe 3-5 years, at that point bulb changes equal the cost of the fixture.

Remember Par does not equal par, it’s about spectrum. T5 is set and forget. LED requires knowledge and experience, higher end units make for easier go. I would use LEDs but too $$ for 1 year warranty and such. I use cheap horticulture t5 with ati bulbs. Cheap and great.

Debating trying good leds on my new 6x4 but so expensive to get proper coverage. ime using cheap LEDs doesn’t work, but there are great tanks with cheap LEDs , gotta know what you are doing. Using two 48” t5 fixtures cost 100$ up front but then 16x bulb changes every 18 months will be costly over time. But I don’t think it will ever equal the cost for LEDs