Flippers4pups
Fins up since 1993
Thank you.
Ranco failed, Johnson Controls failed, what next?
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Thank you.
Chrishvacman
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I use a honeywell T775 they are very very good controllers i also use a plastic strain relief where the cords enter the controller to keep it sealed and the water out. The t775 the sensor is metal so i purchased another Honeywell sensor thats plastic and it works great.
I like the Marineland and Eheim glass heaters even as stand-alone....(all-Marineland at home)
I currently (6+ years I think?) run them through my Reefkeeper Lite as the main temperature sensor....I like that too.
I've used the Eheim Jager glass heaters since 1995 and agree they're good heaters. Problem is, I don't think heater technology in general has kept up well with the times.
I'm not a fan of the glass exteriors, which are just a drop away from adding electricity to a tank. I also don't like the integrated controller being exposed to saltwater 24/7.
I haven't used the Marineland heaters extensively, so I won't comment on them.
I think the Finnex heaters themselves are a solid product, and they come in high wattages, which is good for large tanks.
However, Finnex needs to get their act together and improve their controllers, which are garbage. If you read any reviews of Finnex, you'll find that their controllers are off by many multiple degrees. I have one heating my quarantine tank, and I need to have it set at 86 degrees in order to heat to 78 degrees.
This is the reason I'm in the market for a good, reliable external heater controller, in addition to my reef controller.
Any dead-short titanium heaters are good and reliable. I will not use them because they are like TNT in a tank. If 1000w gets stuck on, then disaster. If one of 3/4 300w heaters get stuck on, then no big deal since one heater alone cannot overheat my tanks. ...and the other working heaters stay off.
Personally, I have never had a glass heater break... but I can certainly see how this is possible. I have had a few in 25+ years shock me from time to time.
I have a Ranco or Medusa control 6x 300w Jagrs on each of my tanks - some in the tank and some in the sump with the temp sensor in the tank. Even if the Medusa or Ranco fail "on" (which I have never heard of happening), then all 6x of the Ehiems would have to fail too. If I lose the return pump, then the heaters and sensor in the tank will keep the tank warm and the flow pumps will keep things oxygenated.
Personally, I have never had a glass heater break... but I can certainly see how this is possible. I have had a few in 25+ years shock me from time to time.
I have a Ranco or Medusa control 6x 300w Jagrs on each of my tanks - some in the tank and some in the sump with the temp sensor in the tank. Even if the Medusa or Ranco fail "on" (which I have never heard of happening), then all 6x of the Ehiems would have to fail too. If I lose the return pump, then the heaters and sensor in the tank will keep the tank warm and the flow pumps will keep things oxygenated.
Chrishvacman
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My pleasure, Encapsulated platinum PT3000 water tight 1/2 in. sensing element with 20 in lead used with Honeywell Temperature Controllers
I've been running the stc-1000 diy units for years on a few tanks. I have replaced the temp sensors on a couple of units which seems to be the weak point. This unit does have a easily replaced temp sensor and an easily replaced fuse. I'm not sure about the units you are using but I had a reef octopus unit fail after a short time and the temp sensor nor the fuse could be replaced, junk-they don't make them anymore. I was too lazy to build a couple more stc-1000 and decided to try the cheap inkbird units; they've been running fine for a couple of years, but appears to be a unit that can not replace the fuse or temp sensor.
Completely agree on having multiple heaters, none of which is able to heat the water significantly on its own. Then the challenge is to be able to detect when one heater is stuck on. That is easy with a reef controller that detects draw from an outlet (e.g., Apex, Profilux) but less so if you don't have one of these controllers.
mcarroll
10K Club member
I've had a chance to see a lot of heaters in action and I've seen more dead Ranco's and dead titanium heaters/heater-controllers than anything else. Dead, off-brand glass heaters rank a distant second.
I can understand the Ranco situation to an extent because they do not come fit for aquarium service from the factory....that means room for the consumer to make their "contribution" to reliability.
I have never even had a good guess as to the failure rates on titanium heaters and heater controllers though.
I suspect end-user abuse of some form in almost all cases of heater failure though.
(Heater designs that are actually defective do get recalled....we have evidence of this.
)If you pick Eheim or Marineland I think you should be safe as long as you treat them with their due respect.
The only way you can drop a glass heater, BTW, is by first picking it up. That's something I usually do once when I pick it up off the store shelf. When I put it down in the tank it doesn't get moved or bothered by anything other than water until the tank gets broken down. No contact with air. No contact with me.
I can't say for sure, but maybe that has something to do with my "good luck" with heaters.
Marineland offers a lifetime warranty on their heaters though, so I tend not to take all the credit.
Sleepydoc
Valuable Member
The first question I have when reading your story is how many watts of heater are you using? Are you maxing out the controllers current limits? Also, as others have mentioned, if the controllers are in a location where they are getting hit with salt spray, you may be subjecting them to an environment for which they weren't designed and thus inadvertently causing the failure. If you can, it's always a good idea to mount controllers outside the tank anyway.
The thermostats/controllers on most heaters are simple bimetal thermostats. A thin leaf of metal flexes as it heats/cools and touches a contact, completing the circuit. Each time it does this, there's a tiny arc. Over time, they are prone to fusing, causing them to fail in the on position. In general, the relays in a controller outlet like a reefkeeper, Apex or GHL are going to be much higher quality than the heater thermostat. The best/most reliable way to set a system like this up is to use the controller as the primary on/off switch and set the heater thermostat a degree or so higher than the controller. That way, the heater thermostat is always in the on position and is only used if the controller switch fails.
If it were me, I would get a heater with a thermostat and set it up as I described. Whatever system you end up using, make sure you're not putting too much current through the controller; that is a surefire way to cause a failure. If you don't want a glass heater, Bulk Reef has these - Ti + a thermostat.
This is why I like the glass ones with the LED light in them. When one is lit and the others are not, then you have a good idea.
Still requires manual intervention, which is subject to human error (e.g., forgetting, getting too busy, laziness), so I usually prefer to automate. (I'm a software developer, so I have no issues offloading work to a computer.) But yes, this is an option.
Two 250W heaters, which is 4.55A. The Ranco and Johnson should be able to handle this.
I agree that this could have been an issue. However, I had the controller mounted on the back of the stand, not inside with the sump. That being said, my new build does a better job of isolating electronic components.
Yes, this is true for many (but not all) heater thermostats/controllers.
Not sure that I agree. While limiting the amount of opening and closing of the bimetal element should prolong its life due to less arcing, as you state above, its failure state is to be stuck on. In this case, if the controller fails, the heater could be waiting to cook your tank. You would have to be testing the heater's thermostat on a regular basis. This could be automated as I mention above (let the Reef Angel test it once a week), but I still tend to prefer two controllers that are not constantly exposed to saltwater and that don't tend to fail in the on position.
If you're advocating a bimetal thermostat, I don't believe these heaters use this kind of element. Also, as I mentioned, I'm really not a huge fan of Finnex controllers in general, so I'd prefer to avoid them.
Thank you for your input!
That is my bad... I was posting under the assumption that this is a safety thread, not automation. As a software engineer, you understand that while tech can be helpful, it is less reliable than a good human... you do not strike me as lazy, forgetful or too busy to make sure that your reef is tippy-top while letting a computer do the mundane... this is not mundane, IMO.
I was a Staff SE at Google for years and wrote my own j2ee controller on a mac mini, but it is all gone now. It made an apex/profilux look stupid and it, of course, had full ssh ability and I used one of my 5 static IPs. It gave me a false sense of security and my tank suffered when I was hands off. Probes just are not good enough... and there are not enough of them to test for the really important things. Once I took it all off and just alerted, there was nothing ever to alert about and it was an expensive light timer. You have to keep the mac mini as far away from the tank as you do a Ranco.
I understand that most of what a apex does is the pseudo language to allow people to "code." I did give my source to a friend who also is darn-near a 10x-er, but he eventually got to where he only uses it to alert as well... he changed some of the java to ruby in the meantime since it did seem to interface with the USB controlled outlets better. This was interesting that I actually had to write code to do new things, but I could usually code, build and deploy in a few minutes... so no big deal... you know how fast this can go without corporate USA, legal, privacy, etc. getting in the way. I even had a nice simulator that would send random numbers (in range) to my probes where I could speed up time and log 10 years worth of actions in a few microseconds.
I guess that what I am saying is that a good tank has both manual at automated lists, and this is probably important enough to put on your once-a-month human checklist. All that you have to do is to take your power strip coming out of your controller and plug it into the wall... wait 10-15 minutes and if one of the heaters says on past the rest, then you have it set wrong or it is bad.
I was a Staff SE at Google for years and wrote my own j2ee controller on a mac mini, but it is all gone now. It made an apex/profilux look stupid and it, of course, had full ssh ability and I used one of my 5 static IPs. It gave me a false sense of security and my tank suffered when I was hands off. Probes just are not good enough... and there are not enough of them to test for the really important things. Once I took it all off and just alerted, there was nothing ever to alert about and it was an expensive light timer.
You have to keep the mac mini as far away from the tank as you do a Ranco.I understand that most of what a apex does is the pseudo language to allow people to "code." I did give my source to a friend who also is darn-near a 10x-er, but he eventually got to where he only uses it to alert as well... he changed some of the java to ruby in the meantime since it did seem to interface with the USB controlled outlets better. This was interesting that I actually had to write code to do new things, but I could usually code, build and deploy in a few minutes... so no big deal... you know how fast this can go without corporate USA, legal, privacy, etc. getting in the way. I even had a nice simulator that would send random numbers (in range) to my probes where I could speed up time and log 10 years worth of actions in a few microseconds.
I guess that what I am saying is that a good tank has both manual at automated lists, and this is probably important enough to put on your once-a-month human checklist. All that you have to do is to take your power strip coming out of your controller and plug it into the wall... wait 10-15 minutes and if one of the heaters says on past the rest, then you have it set wrong or it is bad.
Sleepydoc
Valuable Member
If you want to be able to check both your controllers, you should have the Reef Angel set at a lower temp (e.g. 78º) and the Ranco (or the heater, or whatever you end up buying) set higher, say 80º. Then you can write a routine leave the Reef Angel on and see if the backup controller kicks off at 80º like it should. I dont' know about Reef Angel, but the Apex EB832 and GHL outlet bars also let you measure current and can send an alarm if the outlet is drawing current when it should be off.
Yes - I think the Ranco controllers are rated for 15A, so you're well below that. The fact that you have had two controllers that are well-regarded as quite reliable fail indicates there is something in your application that may be causing problems. It is of course possible that you've just had bad luck, but it's very suspicious.
I think you're missing the point. The failure comes from the repetitive use; The thermostat controller doesn't fail in the on position because it happens to be there, it fails because of arcing from repeated on-off cycles. If you set the heater thermostat higher than the controller, then you eliminate the on-off cycling and reduce the likelihood of failure immensely.
Not advocating bimetal thermostats or Finnex, just pointing them out as a potential option. I've seen several people here use Inkbird controllers with good luck, too. No personal experience, however.
There aren't many options available for non-glass heaters. The only ones I'm aware of are the Finnex titanium heaters, and the cobalt Neo-therm heaters, but there have been problems with those, too. FWIW, the only heater I've had fail was a Finnex titanium - and it was the heating element itself that failed.
