Ready to Give up - Dosing problems

[mcarroll]

I've had similar problems except I had low mag was paying to much attention to my dosing pump settings also found mixing large alk and calcium batches to be bad found funky stuff growing in calcium container

You definitely have to start with a clean container and mixing tools. Def. have to keep it nearly air tight. It helps if the container is also lightproof, but I've gotten by with just the first two.

-Matt

 

[spsfrag]

When I do a wc just fill container with ro a day ahead and just before I start siphoning I add the salt, when I'm done I add the water to the tank. I used to let it cycle with powerheads for a day but I got brown film all over the container. So I say it is better to add fairly fast so stuff won't precipitate

 

[Paul B]

I collect much more NSW in the summer when I don't have to jump into 35 degree water to get it. I am not sure how long it was stored in the ocean before I collected it, but I will find out :becky:

I usually just stick my arm out my window to collect it.

 

[mcarroll]

That's a crazy pic no matter what, but especially if that dude in the doorway isn't photoshopped into the pic!

-Matt

 

[Bernardhny]

New test results. No water changes: Alk is 9, cal is 560 still and mag is very high at 1560.

I am using the standard API test kits for cal and alk and still using red sea for mag.

I am going to do a 10g water change. Gotta go build me some water.

 

[Bernardhny]

Saltwater test results

So I made two 5g batches of water. Used two pumps to circulate the water for awhile and just tested. Calcium was 430, Alk was 12 and Mag was 1300. I am going to let it mix for another half hour and then change out 10G. I suspect that my alk will go up a bit, my calcium should go down a bit and my magnesium should also go down a bit.

Just to have some fun with this. I am going to predict my Alk will be around 10, my calcium will be around 530 and my Mag will be around 1500. Should it be lower? I could try to do some fancy math but what fun would that be.

Anyone else sick of this thread but me? Wait...it is my thread. Scratch that.

 

[ryecoon]

i say switch salts. use Aquavitro.

 

[Bernardhny]

For the sake of sanity, I tested the water. It has been about 40 minutes since changing the water (early to test I know) but here are my findings:

Alk is up to 10
Calcium is still at 560
Magnesium is still at 1560

My only guess at this point is that there is so much precipitated crap in the sand bed that when I put the new water in it simply stirs up whatever has clumped in the sand resulting in the Magnesium and calcium remaining high. Not even sure if that is a possibility. I am going to clean the sand bed tomorrow and stir it all around before changing more water. I will suck out another 20G of water and replace it after the sand is cleaned. Maybe that will help?

Bernard

 

[Bernardhny]

I have used Salinity before switching to Red Sea Coral Pro. I don't care for how Salinity mixes. It comes out cloudy and tends to precipitate quickly. I don't think it is the salt that is causing the problem. I think the initial cause was me overdosing magnesium due to reading the test results incorrectly. I dosed when the Magnesium was already high, and I dosed so much that the tank precipitated a wall of concrete on the glass. I know that once I get calcium and Magnesium back under control everything will turn back to normal.

The only benefit to all of this is a huge amount of Coraline algae that is growing on the rock. The tank has purpled up over the last few days like crazy.

Looking forward to normal water chemistry someday soon.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Omg throw away the RedSea Mag test. Get a Salifert Test kit big difference. More Accurate, easier to read and you add a scoop of powder on "Reagant 2" instead of swirling your time away. Trust me.

++1

 

[Bernardhny]

I know, the problem is finding that kit without ordering it online. I have had companies ship me kits that are literally a year old and near its expiration date. Only to have to return it, get another kit etc. My LFS (all five of them) only carry Red Sea, API and Tetra kits. I should just order it and maybe I will tomorrow. I am also thinking of changing salt tomorrow. I have about a quarter of a bucket of Red Sea left. Either I go back to Salinity or something else.

Oh well, up way too late for a 5am wakeup

 

[TheSaint216]

Stop Dosing. Do a 10 gallon water change every day for 4 days cleaning your sand out each day. What are you using to check your Salinity? If thats off you could be putting more Alk, Calcium and Mag in then you think you are. Check here, higher Salinity with the product means higher levels. Coral Pro Salt is ideal for sustainable, accelerated coral growth.

Get rid of the API test kits and get Saliferts or all Red Sea kits. I have the Red Sea foundations kit and have had no problems. I use Reef Crystals and dose and have had no problems. If you really want to adjust your levels look into B-ionic ESV salts.

 

[Paul B]

I have been in this a long time and I seriousely have never heard of anyone doing this much work. Do a lot of people go through all this? Because I don't do any of this stuff. I guess I am doing it all wrong. :twitch:

 

[TheSaint216]

I think the problem is he is chasing numbers really

 

[Bernardhny]

I am not sure chasing numbers is what I am doing. This started out with my alk dropping to 6. In trying to figure out why I overdosed magnesium and threw my chemistry out of whack. We test our water for a reason, not so we can go crazy, but so we can grow a healthy reef. My calcium and magnesium are off, it is causing my alk to fluctuate wildly. I am simply trying to recover. I was trying to auto dose to help stability. Crap happens. I want to achieve steady numbers, it is not a chase, it is a goal

 

[vlangel]

I know, the problem is finding that kit without ordering it online. I have had companies ship me kits that are literally a year old and near its expiration date. Only to have to return it, get another kit etc. My LFS (all five of them) only carry Red Sea, API and Tetra kits. I should just order it and maybe I will tomorrow. I am also thinking of changing salt tomorrow. I have about a quarter of a bucket of Red Sea left. Either I go back to Salinity or something else.

Oh well, up way too late for a 5am wakeup

It sounds like you are on the right track to me now. If you do WCs with a sea salt that is lower in calcium and magnesium your numbers are going to come down more in line with what you are looking for. Instant Ocean is lower in both of those if you have access to it, its more like natural seawater. A few water changes along with vacuuming your sand will probably do it.

 

[MrDJeep123]

Do a lot of people go through all this? Because I don't do any of this stuff. I guess I am doing it all wrong. :twitch:

I know, right?
OP, I read through some of your posts. An old tank I had setup ran at 7.8. Didn't bother because it was always stable. Stability IS key. Your swings up and down will be detrimental to your tank inhabitants. Stop chasing numbers. Why do so many people do this? You are clearly driving yourself bonkers. Do your weekly/bi-weekly water changes and ENJOY YOUR TANK.

 

[Paul B]

We test our water for a reason, not so we can go crazy, but so we can grow a healthy reef

I get that.

Why do so many people do this? You are clearly driving yourself bonkers. Do your weekly/bi-weekly water changes and ENJOY YOUR TANK.

I mentioned that in my first post. Seawater is very stable as long as you don't mess with it. It comes out of the box just fine, but as soon as you start to fool with it, you will have problems. The only time my tank was unhealthy was when I dosed Kalk. That was a disaster and I had to chase numbers. Now that I don't test anything, my tank has been running very well for decades. But I understand a lot of people feel the parameters have to be what they perceive as perfect and go through what the OP is going through. Have fun

 

[jservedio]

Dropped from 9 to 7.26 overnight. I just tested alk and it was 130ppm

So what do I win for having the tank that won't hold alkalinity? Nothing but more headaches. I am going to test Magnesium and Calcium in a few minutes. Fun Fun Fun

Your problem is the massively high calcium level causing precipitation. Your water is far too saturated with calcium for your magnesium to prevent from precipitating. Since calcium can only precipitate WITH carbonate, your alkalinity is going to drop (exactly what you are seeing...). It will CONTINUE to drop until your calcium comes down to a level where your water isn't so saturated and magnesium can do it's job of preventing precipitation. For seawater to be stable - Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium need to be balanced, or close to it since seawater is super-saturated with calcium and (bi)carbonate ions and the magnesium ions prevent it from precipitating out. When they are out of balance, they naturally tend back toward balance by precipitating.

Here is how to fix this (it takes a bit of time):
1. Get your magnesium where it needs to be - above 1350ppm. It takes a TON of additive - you can dose 150ppm per day worth of magnesium. The higher magnesium goes, the less precipitation there will be which will make this process go slower - a GOOD thing.
2. STOP DOSING ANY CALCIUM
3. Measure your Alkalinity daily and dose ONLY enough alkalinity to return it to NSW levels. You don't have to dose and can instead just do water changes - this will do the same thing but ALSO add calcium and make the process slower. You could also do a 100% water change and be done with it permanently.

Once your tank is balanced - stop dosing alltogether and just do water changes to keep your parameters stable. Don't dose unless you know exactly what it is doing to your water. Never chase numbers - especially pH. pH is the worst possible parameter to chase. Seawater is stable, but also extremely complex - there is a lot of chemistry going on in our water that most of us don't fully understand. Unless you understand what is happening chemically to your water when you dose, you should not be doing it. You need to know how to undo anything you do to your tank.

 

[Bernardhny]

response


In response:

1) That is easier said than done. I have literally changed almost all of my water over the last 10-12 days and my Magnesium is NOT going down. Either is my calcium. Yes - I have tested to make sure the water I am creating is coming in at the right numbers. It makes no sense why the problem has continued as long as it has.
2) I am not dosing anything but Alk. My alk was at 9. I simply did a 10G water change and it went to 10. My Calcium and Mag did not drop. I did not need to dose Alk yesterday at all. The water changes have brought the number back up.
3) I will continue to do water changes. Going to mix the sand up and do a 20G water change tonight. I will measure chemistry again before and after and hope that calcium and mag have dropped. .

My main problem is that my calcium and Mag should be dropping. It is not.

I have used two sets of kits. Hannah and API. If there was a LFS that sold any other kit I would have bought it, I realize I have to order them online but hate doing so. I can change more than 20% water per day, just not sure how wise a move that is.