Red Planet issue

[Dr. Jim]

I haven’t tried interceptor, I’m still waiting on my order from Canada. Once I get the interceptor I’ll give it a shot.

Will ivermectin kill the fish?

My hippo tang was the only fish in a tank where I used Ivomec 1% @ 4ml per 30 gal (for a week before a partial water change) and it showed no ill effects. I would guess that it may be safe for most fish but since there is some uncertainty, I would be prepared to either remove the fish if they become stressed or be prepared for a major water change. This would be another reason to experiment with dosages to see if you can get by with a much lower dosage. I wouldn't be surprised if my relatively low dosage (4ml/30 gal) used over an extended period of time (3-4 weeks) would be good enough to eliminate them. If it was me, I might consider starting with that dosage in the main tank and adding more if it isn't effective after a couple of days. (Or, again, experiment with lower dosages with bathes first to find a reasonable "starting dosage"). This plan could possibly work if it is true that the half-life is as long as @sculpin01 mentioned. I never looked into its half-life so that is new info for me, and this can work to our favor since that may allow you to gradually increase the concentration over a period of time (without previous dosings breaking down).

 

[Syntax1235]

@sculpin01
Can you post the source for the half life of ivermectin. I’m reading literature that states a much shorter half life:

Ivermectin

www.antimicrobe.org

 

[Dr. Jim]

That is a good question about the half-life of ivermectin. I agree that it is a good idea to make sure the half-life is LONG before proceeding with my recommendation about gradually increasing the concentration over time if needed.

The half life of ivermectin in the article you cited was based on administration to a human where the liver quickly metabolizes the drug. The half life in saltwater can be much different because of the lack of enzymes and chemical processes needed to metabolize it.

In this article, it is stated that "its half-life in marine sediment was greater than 100 days" :

Europe PMC

Europe PMC is an archive of life sciences journal literature.

europepmc.org

 

[Syntax1235]

Thanks for the info @Dr. Jim

Does anyone know if ivermectin is safe for clams? I have a deresa in my tank and obviously don’t want to lose it.

 

[Dr. Jim]

I'm guessing that that will be too big a gamble to risk. If it was me, I'd set up another tank using 100% of your main tank water, several pieces of live rock, a good light and a power head to agitate the surface. The clam and as many of the other inverts as you can round up could go in there. After the treatment on the main tank, you can rinse all the inverts a few times, return them to the main tank, then treat the temporary tank with the rock the same way you treated the main tank.

 

[sculpin01]

I’m at work but Dr. Jim’s article is similar to what I found. The Reef Vet on Fb suggested trying very high doses of milbemycin oxime as a treatment. I have recently learned that you can get a much greater effect from milbemycin by soft boiling it at 90-95 C for 5 minutes and then pouring the hot solution into your sump. Apparently the boiling step increases the solubility and thus the effectiveness. I would consider starting there prior to ivermectin.

 

[Syntax1235]

I have some milbemax that came in the mail. The pill also has prazi. I assume that is not an issue and may help any fish that have internal parasites?

I removed as many snails and other critters as possible. I was thinking of starting with a 2.5x (25mg) dose and another 2.5x the next day. If that doesn’t work I’ll move up to 5x or 50mg.

I severely underestimated how much I would need and only ordered 4 pills, unfortunately they are only 12.5mg per pill for the generic milbemax. I’ve ordered more butt won’t be in for a couple more weeks.

so, I can currently dose 50mg, a 5x dose once or two 25mg doses. Or should I wait until the other pills arrive?

I estimate that I have about 175 gallons of water volume.

 

[Dr. Jim]

How much prazi will be going in. Toxic levels should be considered if you are using 5x the recommended dose.

 

[Syntax1235]

A single dose will contain 12.5 mg of milbemyacin and 125mg of prazi.

 

[Syntax1235]

I can only order this through Canada because I can’t find a vet that will sell intercepter or milbeguard, both of which only contain milbemyacin. It seems that interceptor and the generic milbemax both contain prazi in Canada.

 

[sculpin01]

I have some milbemax that came in the mail. The pill also has prazi. I assume that is not an issue and may help any fish that have internal parasites?

I removed as many snails and other critters as possible. I was thinking of starting with a 2.5x (25mg) dose and another 2.5x the next day. If that doesn’t work I’ll move up to 5x or 50mg.

I severely underestimated how much I would need and only ordered 4 pills, unfortunately they are only 12.5mg per pill for the generic milbemax. I’ve ordered more butt won’t be in for a couple more weeks.

so, I can currently dose 50mg, a 5x dose once or two 25mg doses. Or should I wait until the other pills arrive?

I estimate that I have about 175 gallons of water volume.

I highly recommend boiling your milbemycin dose at 90-95 degrees C for 5 minutes in RODI and then adding it directly to your tank. The boiling step increases solubility (and subsequent activity) of the drug significantly.

 

[Syntax1235]

I’m testing the doseon a piece of rock that has some bugs on it. I’m trying a regular strength dose in a five gallon bucket. So far it has been about three hours and the bugs are still moving. I’ll add another dose in the morning. I’m trying to find the smallest lethal dose as to not put too much prazi in the tank.

yes @sculpin01 I dissolved the dose in pre boiling ro water before adding to the bucket.

 

[Dr. Jim]

I severely underestimated how much I would need and only ordered 4 pills, unfortunately they are only 12.5mg per pill for the generic milbemax. I’ve ordered more butt won’t be in for a couple more weeks.

I might be able to help you with this. I will look into something and PM you later.

 

[Dr. Jim]

A single dose will contain 12.5 mg of milbemyacin and 125mg of prazi.

Considering the usual dose for fish is 2 - 2.5 mg/L, that amount of prazi should certainly be safe for the fish but I don't know if you will be affecting any inverts other than flatworms. I would try avoiding unnecessary meds.

 

[Syntax1235]

Considering the usual dose for fish is 2 - 2.5 mg/L, that amount of prazi should certainly be safe for the fish but I don't know if you will be affecting any inverts other than flatworms. I would try avoiding unnecessary meds.

I’m experimenting with ivermectin. So far two drops from a needle in a gallon of water is having no effect on the bugs. The rock is in a five gallon bucket.

I just did my second dose of milbemycin in another 5 gallon bucket and it is not having an effect on the bugs.

 

[sculpin01]

1-2 ml of ivermectin per gallon would be the dose I would try.

 

[Syntax1235]

1-2 ml of ivermectin per gallon would be the dose I would try.

I gave the corals in a bath with about 2.25ml in 3 gallons and that seemed to work….. not sure if that dose is considered save for an in tank treatment? Adding about 125ml to a volume of 165gallons seems really high.

 

[sculpin01]

No dose is safe for in tank treatment (with the exception of red flatworms which are apparently immune).

I like your approach to this. I think Dr. Jim recommended setting up another system, dipping all of your corals in one of the things you have found to kill them, and then moving them into the new system. That doesn't clear the old system of mites but I think you could try a baited trap approach. Leave one coral as bait in your primary tank after you have moved the rest out, and dip that coral daily or every other day. Theoretically you will eventually exhaust/collapse the population doing so.

 

[Syntax1235]

No dose is safe for in tank treatment (with the exception of red flatworms which are apparently immune).

I like your approach to this. I think Dr. Jim recommended setting up another system, dipping all of your corals in one of the things you have found to kill them, and then moving them into the new system. That doesn't clear the old system of mites but I think you could try a baited trap approach. Leave one coral as bait in your primary tank after you have moved the rest out, and dip that coral daily or every other day. Theoretically you will eventually exhaust/collapse the population doing so.

I have a couple options which is reassuring. I was able to acquire some interceptor without prazi and I am considering dosing the tank aggressively and see how that works.

I like your idea of isolating the corals and using a bait to attract the bugs. If the interceptor fails, I’ll have to go this route. I have a 40 breeder set up with a hang on filter where I put my snails and a couple urchins. I don’t have a light on this tank that would sustain corals. I’ve always wanted to set up a frag tank, maybe this is a good opportunity to either buy a shallow frag tank, or use the 40 breeder, regardless I’ll have to buy a light.

i am currently dosing some mylbemycin in a 5 gallon bucket with a small rock from my tank. I dosed a single dose yesterday to no effect, another single dose this morning, and a triple dose this afternoon when I noticed the morning does didn’t work. I’ll see if the bugs are alive in the morning. This should give me a good idea of how to dose the tank.

 

[Syntax1235]

I checked on the bugs this morning that were treated with 3x dose of interceptor, I did not notice any movement. Next step, put them under a microscope to see if there are movements being made that can’t be seen with a magnifying glass.

Most of the snails are in a holding tank, but I could not catch my two cleaner shrimp. I may try dosing a single dose to see if I can catch the shrimp if they get dazed, hopefully before they die. I’ll then dose the remaining mylbemycin, followed by another triple dose 24 hours later, this should do the trick. I’ll have to repeat a at some point later since these things lay eggs.