Red Sea Fail, very harsh!! But truthful IMO.

[BeanAnimal]

That's what I said. The only downward pressure on the front panel is gravity. The pressure from the water on the front panel is out only, not down. Am I wrong? BeanAnimal thinks so.

There is more at play than the weight of the front panel. We discussed some of the physics in one of these threads. It is not worth trying to explain in detail other than to say the dynamic here is vastly different than a tank that is supported on all 4 side. Glass stiffness, stand rigidity, silicone properties… it all comes into play.

 

[Pntbll687]

I'm not going to debate on whether redsea used substandard glass for the front panel or any of that. I want to focus on one thing, THE WARRANTY

RedSea bills itself as a "premium" brand, but the warranty is TRASH. Three years is all you get from "premium" brands?

When researching tanks for the 6ft peninsula I wanted I could have gone with pretty much whatever I wanted. RedSea, Waterbox, Cade, ect were all options on the table. I actually ended up going with... Aqueon. Aqueon offers a LIFETIME warranty on their large tanks, and that tipped the scale in their favor. It needed to be on a "aquarium appropriate stand", so I contacted them with the plans for a diy stand with 2x4, got approval before even buying the tank. It was super simple to get approval for this.

For a "premium" brand, I just don't see the value in RedSea tanks, simply because of the lack of warranty. Anyone setting up a large tank knows it's a multi year investment to get it going and to a spot where you can enjoy the tank.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I'm not going to debate on whether redsea used substandard glass for the front panel or any of that. I want to focus on one thing, THE WARRANTY

RedSea bills itself as a "premium" brand, but the warranty is TRASH. Three years is all you get from "premium" brands?

When researching tanks for the 6ft peninsula I wanted I could have gone with pretty much whatever I wanted. RedSea, Waterbox, Cade, ect were all options on the table. I actually ended up going with... Aqueon. Aqueon offers a LIFETIME warranty on their large tanks, and that tipped the scale in their favor. It needed to be on a "aquarium appropriate stand", so I contacted them with the plans for a diy stand with 2x4, got approval before even buying the tank. It was super simple to get approval for this.

For a "premium" brand, I just don't see the value in RedSea tanks, simply because of the lack of warranty. Anyone setting up a large tank knows it's a multi year investment to get it going and to a spot where you can enjoy the tank.

Your statement would apply to other manufactures of the same design as rs as none have lifetime warranties. Just clarifying as most all rimless warranties are all close to the same. The gif is an attempt at humor and from the movie Tommy Boy…. Ugh I’m getting old. It’s not bashing on aqueon just poking fun of warranties in general so no offense is intended

 

[Sleepingtiger]

There is more at play than the weight of the front panel. We discussed some of the physics in one of these threads. It is not worth trying to explain in detail other than to say the dynamic here is vastly different than a tank that is supported on all 4 side. Glass stiffness, stand rigidity, silicone properties… it all comes into play.

Of course there are many dynamics that come into play to cause the front seem to fail. Please don't explain the detail of all the dynamics because it really isn't worth you're time.

All I said was the main contributing factor for the front seem to fail was the water pressure pushing out on the front panel and the weight of the water causing the bottom panel to bow because of the stand being improperly supported.

Does the weight of the front glass panel contribute some to the seem failing? Of course, but to what extent? My guess is probably not as great as some worry.

 

[Sleepingtiger]

I'm not going to debate on whether redsea used substandard glass for the front panel or any of that. I want to focus on one thing, THE WARRANTY

RedSea bills itself as a "premium" brand, but the warranty is TRASH. Three years is all you get from "premium" brands?

When researching tanks for the 6ft peninsula I wanted I could have gone with pretty much whatever I wanted. RedSea, Waterbox, Cade, ect were all options on the table. I actually ended up going with... Aqueon. Aqueon offers a LIFETIME warranty on their large tanks, and that tipped the scale in their favor. It needed to be on a "aquarium appropriate stand", so I contacted them with the plans for a diy stand with 2x4, got approval before even buying the tank. It was super simple to get approval for this.

For a "premium" brand, I just don't see the value in RedSea tanks, simply because of the lack of warranty. Anyone setting up a large tank knows it's a multi year investment to get it going and to a spot where you can enjoy the tank.

I don't think you're comparing apples to apples

Aqueon makes large regular aquariums, not rimless. They don't sell turn key tanks. The most they have is a reef ready tank and you still have to piece everything together yourself.
Red Sea, everything is ready out of the box. Just add skimmer, pump and water.

Lets all admit, their tanks look sharp. I think they were the first to go with the clean lines. Painted white modern cabinets and rimless. Its not the traditional stained oak cabinets with a giant hood on top that looks like it belong to my great grandfather.

 

[merkmerk73]

I don't think you're comparing apples to apples

Aqueon makes large regular aquariums, not rimless. They don't sell turn key tanks. The most they have is a reef ready tank and you still have to piece everything together yourself.
Red Sea, everything is ready out of the box. Just add skimmer, pump and water.

Lets all admit, their tanks look sharp. I think they were the first to go with the clean lines. Painted white modern cabinets and rimless. Its not the traditional stained oak cabinets with a giant hood on top that looks like it belong to my great grandfather.

+1 on the aesthetic of red sea tanks.

They look amazing. I went with Planet Aquariums, but they have a similar product and it's what my wife was convinced to go with because it looks modern.

I'm honestly sad to see their tanks have issues. I'm a huge fan of most of RS stuff.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Of course there are many dynamics that come into play to cause the front seem to fail. Please don't explain the detail of all the dynamics because it really isn't worth you're time.

All I said was the main contributing factor for the front seem to fail was the water pressure pushing out on the front panel and the weight of the water causing the bottom panel to bow because of the stand being improperly supported.

Does the weight of the front glass panel contribute some to the seem failing? Of course, but to what extent? My guess is probably not as great as some worry.

I did not say the weight of the front glass was an "issue" or the causal factor. The weight of the front glass certainly plays into the forces at work. The water "pushing out" is not the causal issue either, though it too contributes. The overall "system" in place to balance and distribute the force is (clearly) not sufficient to prevent front (usually center) seam delimitation... or these failures would not be occurring.

The "waste of time" is hashing the physics out here for no reason. RS doesn't care, and most of the folks following along don't care, as it settles nothing in context to the tanks themselves. I was merely responding to your post where your assumption was (by your own admission) maybe not correct due to your lack of understanding of the actual physics involved.

 

[Pntbll687]

Your statement would apply to other manufactures of the same design as rs as none have lifetime warranties. Just clarifying as most all rimless warranties are all close to the same. The gif is an attempt at humor and from the movie Tommy Boy…. Ugh I’m getting old. It’s not bashing on aqueon just poking fun of warranties in general so no offense is intended

That gif is hilarious!! And from one of the best comedies ever made

And don’t you find it odd that all the “premium” brands that have rimless tanks all have the same warranty??

Premium prices should command premium warranties, not just tanks, all equipment. Sicce is the only brand stepping up the game in the warranty side.

 

[MnFish1]

That gif is hilarious!! And from one of the best comedies ever made

And don’t you find it odd that all the “premium” brands that have rimless tanks all have the same warranty??

Premium prices should command premium warranties, not just tanks, all equipment. Sicce is the only brand stepping up the game in the warranty side.

RedSea now offers a 5 year warranty - for an extra 45 $

 

[brandon429]

The reason these threads are valid vs invalid or beating dead horses like fans claim is because it's causing rs to lose some business and endure lasting doubt about their quality, the natural consequences of building any iteration of tanks that barely last past warranty

This isn't 1962/ the dawn of marine keeping/ in 2023 no company should be producing these splitting tanks. These threads give the only accountability possible + deserved. I hope they lose a big chunk $ through the grapevine

 

[brandon429]

A mistake in production doesn't warrant this pressure

Banning 100% of any valid mention from their Facebook page deserves it though

Not allowing one single mention in their Facebook threads, ever, not once, is patently unacceptable. There's no reason that a second buyer can't be assured of tank integrity. That's too low of a quality bar to restrict reliability only to first buyers; that's too brittle and delicate of an aquarium if this is the case

Having this already happen in 2015, then it happening now 2x succession warrants at least a fair discussion of the matter to warn buyers. It wasn't the production lot mistake it was how they try to suppress it.

 

[Snoopdog]

A mistake in production doesn't warrant this pressure

Banning 100% of any valid mention from their Facebook page deserves it though

Not allowing one single mention in their Facebook threads, ever, not once, is patently unacceptable. There's no reason that a second buyer can't be assured of tank integrity. That's too low of a quality bar to restrict reliability only to first buyers; that's too brittle and delicate of an aquarium if this is the case

Having this already happen in 2015, then it happening now 2x succession warrants at least a fair discussion of the matter to warn buyers. It wasn't the production lot mistake it was how they try to suppress it.

Yeah the locking thread or deleting them on Facebook is telling.

Honestly the Facebook group is a mega *concern*. It is a huge group of sterile looking tanks that look show room quality, almost everyone on there post long threads where they show thousands of dollars of all Red Sea products, new in the box. Even when I had a Red Sea tank I did not buy all Red Sea products. The entire group is suspect, quite cult like. The last I looked on there a bunch of post was about some new ATO system, they were doing the same thing with that product. Oh and I did see people posting how they roller systems were failing, soon after the post would get deleted.

 

[BeanAnimal]

RedSea now offers a 5 year warranty - for an extra 45 $

Think about that for a moment…

 

[stevolough]

What Red Sea failed to do is a proper failure analysis on these failed tanks. What did the failed tanks have in common? Why do some fail and others don’t. If they took the time to evaluate each failure they might have been able to get a head of it. A warranty is useless when your life stock is dead on the floor and you have a flooded house.

 

[BeanAnimal]

RedSea now offers a 5 year warranty - for an extra 45 $

Here let me help.
They did the math.

(Total Claims attempted - claims denied) * cost to replace = exposure
vs
number of warranties sold * 45 dollars.

People are concerned and they know it. $45 more dollars on top 3k-10k purchase is an easy sell.

= profit center

Otherwise they would offer the 5 years for free.

 

[Northern Flicker]

Yeah the locking thread or deleting them on Facebook is telling.

Honestly the Facebook group is a mega *concern*. It is a huge group of sterile looking tanks that look show room quality, almost everyone on there post long threads where they show thousands of dollars of all Red Sea products, new in the box. Even when I had a Red Sea tank I did not buy all Red Sea products. The entire group is suspect, quite cult like. The last I looked on there a bunch of post was about some new ATO system, they were doing the same thing with that product. Oh and I did see people posting how they roller systems were failing, soon after the post would get deleted.

Red Sea can’t really admit public ally that there is a dangerous flaw because that would encourage class action .

 

[MnFish1]

Think about that for a moment…

No other company does it... The point I was making is that they must have confidence in their gen II tanks. Everyone knows that there was an issue with some gen I tanks.

 

[MnFish1]

Here let me help.
They did the math.

(Total Claims attempted - claims denied) * cost to replace = exposure
vs
number of warranties sold * 45 dollars.

People are concerned and they know it. $45 more dollars on top 3k-10k purchase is an easy sell.

= profit center

Otherwise they would offer the 5 years for free.

Really? Thanks for the explanation. Of course thats one reason why they are doing. BUT - it also suggests that they feel that the number of failures are going to be very small. Thats common sense - go ahead and put the numbers into your equations let's say they sell 10,000 aquariums/year (made up numbers), 10 percent fail, and 5% are accepted. That means 500 * minimum of 3000 cost = 1.5 million dollars. Maximum (according to your numbers) 500*10,000 = 5 million dollars. So - their warranty revenue is 45*10,000 = 450,00. So - at least with these made up numbers - their 'profit center' is a loss.

IMHO - the 'reason' for the $45 charge is that is the cause of investigating claims, and the administration of the warranty

 

[MnFish1]

Yeah the locking thread or deleting them on Facebook is telling.

Honestly the Facebook group is a mega *concern*. It is a huge group of sterile looking tanks that look show room quality, almost everyone on there post long threads where they show thousands of dollars of all Red Sea products, new in the box. Even when I had a Red Sea tank I did not buy all Red Sea products. The entire group is suspect, quite cult like. The last I looked on there a bunch of post was about some new ATO system, they were doing the same thing with that product. Oh and I did see people posting how they roller systems were failing, soon after the post would get deleted.

It is my understanding that many companies delete scan and filter certain threads as well on their public Facebook page. Unless you are monitoring Every company - and understand their policies on their pages this is an odd comparison.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Really? Thanks for the explanation. Of course thats what they are doing. BUT - it also suggests that they feel that the number of failures are going to be very small. Thats common sense - go ahead and put the numbers into your equations let's say they sell 10,000 aquariums/year (made up numbers), 10 percent fail, and 5% are accepted. That means 500 * minimum of 3000 cost = 1.5 million dollars. Maximum (according to your numbers) 500*10,000 = 5 million dollars. So - their warranty revenue is 45*10,000 = 450,00. So - at least with these made up numbers - their 'profit center' is a loss.

IMHO - the 'reason' for the $45 charge is that is the cause of investigating claims, and the administration of the warranty

It doesn't cost them $3000 to build and ship an aquarium. They make them in China for a reason