Reduce nitrate in saltwater tank

Water changes can lead to nutrient imbalance and can contribute to cyano. see https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cyano-some-thoughts.211367

I'm not at all crazy about carbon dosing...disrupting carbon limitation without a means of testing is a bad idea IMHO: see https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dissolved-organic-carbon-and-coral-disease.212072/

I'm not too crazy about macro-algae - cheato in the system can lead to elevated carbon in the tank and algaes produce sugars which can lead to coral morbidity. Future discussion.

Excess nuitient levels of N and P by theselves are not the big deamons they are made out to be, but they can become too high and a means of reduction is desireable. Remote systems are better than in tank solutions IMO.

As usual I would suggest a different way:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-sulphur-denitrator.211365/
 
New to the forum but not to the hobby. I currently have a 36 gallon tank that is now 3 months old. The only inhabitants in the tank are 2 turbo snails. I currently have 28 lbs of live rock and 20 lbs of live sand in the tank. I have a HOB filter which is only running ChemiPure and Purigen in the filter. I have been through the cycle and the tank is crystal clear. All my levels look good except that I am unable to get my nitrates down past 40. They did however spike up to well over 80 ppm. I have already conducted 2 40% water changes and am now down to 40ppm on the nitrate. Is there anything else that I may not be doing or forgetting, there is no sump or protein skimmer running. I had a 30 long about 6 years ago and ran it with just a HOB filter and never had a nitrate problem. I have tested the water I used to change the water and it is at 0ppm in nitrates. Thanks to everyone for their help.
At three months you don't yet have any nitrate removing bacteria well established. You've already found out that replacing a portion of the water only removes a portion of the nitrates. To get down to near zero you need a method of removing the nitrates. Several methods work well. Growing plants then removing them from the system, adding a reactor with a medium that removes nitrates, adding a carbon source. All work well. I'd say the simplest would be to run the tank water through a reactor filled with something like poly beads that remove nitrate and phosphate. I would imagine your hob doesn't have enough flow through enough media to actually affect the amount of nitrate in your water.
 
Ok. Just did another 20% water change today. Will check the levels out in 24hrs. The HOB filter that I have on the tank is rated at 200gph turnover. I have an old refugium that I could use on the tank to see if that would work as far as growing plants. As far as adding a carbon source, what would be a good carbon source. Also I have read that going all the way to zero nitrates is something that is not as necessary as the ammonia , phosphate, and nitrite levels.
 
. As far as adding a carbon source, what would be a good carbon source. Also I have read that going all the way to zero nitrates is something that is not as necessary as the ammonia , phosphate, and nitrite levels.

FWIW, nitrite need not be zero, and is almost never worth measuring. Unlike a freshwater aquarium, it is not toxic in seawater.

As to soluble organic carbon dosing, vinegar and vodka are the most commonly used. I sightly prefer vinegar in my system.
 
Ok if I am to dose with vinegar. How do I determine the amount of vinegar to dose in a 36 gallon aquarium? Also, how does this dosing affect the livestock in the tank? At this point the only livestock I have in the tank are 2 turbo snails. I have been waiting to get my nitrates down as much as possible before looking at stocking any corals or any other livestock.
 
Ok if I am to dose with vinegar. How do I determine the amount of vinegar to dose in a 36 gallon aquarium? Also, how does this dosing affect the livestock in the tank? At this point the only livestock I have in the tank are 2 turbo snails. I have been waiting to get my nitrates down as much as possible before looking at stocking any corals or any other livestock.

Organic carbon dosing isn't perfect, but it is useful. This article describes vinegar dosing, but don't focus too much on the table, which is not correct, IMO:

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

Here's my section from the nitrate article I linked earlier which answers some of your other questions:

Organic carbon dosing involves adding a soluble organic compound to the aquarium which spurs bacterial growth. Typical organics used can be ethanol (as vodka), acetic acid (as vinegar), calcium acetate (as lime saturated vinegar), sugar (sucrose) and many others. Vodka and vinegar are by far the most popular. I use vinegar.

These organic molecules can be used by many organisms, including corals, but the main intent is to drive bacterial growth. To grow, the bacteria need a source of nitrogen and a source of phosphate, and a large portion of these they remove directly from the water. The bacteria may grow out of sight (inside live rock or sand, in refugia, in tubing, etc.). They may also grow in globs in the display tank. They have to grow somewhere. If they become unsightly, try dosing a different organic that may drive a different set of species that may grow in a different location. I’ve had them often seem to grow on GAC (granular activated carbon media) in a canister filter I previously used, allowing relatively easy export by rinsing the GAC once every couple of weeks.

I’ve never heard any plausible argument why dosing multiple organics at once is desirable, but many people do it and there is likely no harm in doing so. The idea that multiple organics drive a diversity of bacterial species is just speculation, and even if true, I don’t see the benefit.

The bacteria themselves can then be skimmed out, or used as a food for filter feeders, or both (most people probably have both to some extent, unless they do not use a skimmer). The bacteria may grow partly in low O2 regions (such as in sand or rock) and partly in highly oxygenated environments. Since metabolism in low O2 regions uses relatively more nitrate than phosphate compared to metabolism in a high O2 environment, the relative amounts of nitrate and phosphate reduction an aquarists observes may vary from system to system.

Nitrate is always reduced to a greater extent than phosphate simply because bacteria need a lot more nitrogen than phosphorus, but metabolism of organics in low O2 regions may skew it even more, and sometimes can leave the aquarium with little nitrate and an excess of phosphate that they bacteria don’t “want”. In such a case, a phosphate binder might usefully export this remaining phosphate. Alternatively, some aquarists have dosed nitrate directly to the aquarium to allow the residual phosphate to be consumed.

These linked articles describe vinegar and vodka dosing in more detail.

One potential drawback that may have played a role in some tank problems is that the bacteria that thrive when organic molecules are dosed may be benign (and appear to be in almost all cases), but might actually be pathogenic in others. That is, the added organics may enhance bacterial infections if those bacteria causing the infection (of fish, corals, etc.) are able to take up the added organics and use them to grow faster. I think this risk is low, but it may be real. If you have unexplained problems that might fit this description, and are organic carbon dosing, try not dosing for an extended period.

A second potential drawback of organic carbon dosing is the potential for proliferation of unsightly cyanobacteria in the display tank. There are many species of cyanobacteria, and some can consume the organics we add in this method. If they become a primary consumer, then something may need to be done, such as switching to a different organic compound to dose, or reducing phosphate with a binder such as GFO (granular ferric oxide).
 
Look up nopox, its a carbon dosing + kind of product, works well so don't overdose.
 
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I finally got my first official test kit – liquid drops instead of the strips.
In playing around here that the strips are not as reliable and everybody kept asking me for "parameters of my tank."at first I did not know what that meant. But I am learning a lot thanks to you guys!
So my tank is a 30 gallon nouveau tank.
It has been up since late January of this year.
I have had a few roller coasters for learning what fish or coral or compatible with what – but for the most part it is OK. (This week...)
I'm confused on the test results though if somebody could help decode?
PH 8.0
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrites 0ppm
Nitrates.... 160?!?!

I did the nitrate test twice being convinced that I did something wrong – everything looks OK… How do I fix this?
 
I completed my 20% water change yesterday morning and have waited 24 hours before testing ,y nitrates. All of my parameters are good to go and holding. I am going to give it another 24 hours before moving forward. I had to do 2 40% water changes and the one 20% water change to get my nitrates down to 0. Since the only livestock I have in the tank at this point is 2 turbo snails I am attributing my spike in nitrates to die off from my live rock. This tank is a 36 gallon bow front that is running a HOB filter with only ChemiPure and Purigen. I will keep you updated.
 
So I checked my nitrate levels again and they are back up to around 20ppm. They go away with the water changes but keeping them down is the hardest part. I have read about others having the same issue but I am wondering if I am just chasing the numbers instead of looking at how the tank is doing with what is in it. I don't have any algae growth in the tank and my 2 turbos are doing just fine. Any thoughts?
 
So I checked my nitrate levels again and they are back up to around 20ppm. They go away with the water changes but keeping them down is the hardest part. I have read about others having the same issue but I am wondering if I am just chasing the numbers instead of looking at how the tank is doing with what is in it. I don't have any algae growth in the tank and my 2 turbos are doing just fine. Any thoughts?

20 ppm nitrate is not likely hurting much in your tank, but in the absence of exporting it, it will likely continue to rise. I'd look into some sort of nutrient export method to use on your system, such as growing macroalgae or an ATS, dosing organic carbon, carbon or sulfur-based denitrators, denitrifying media of various types to encourage such bacteria, and more skimming.

This has more on the pros and cons of the various methods:

https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/nitrate-in-the-reef-aquarium/
 
We've done everything in the past from bio pellets to vodka dosing with no luck. Then i found the source of the issue which was OVERFEEDING the fish and the corals.

Now, all 3 tanks are running via ZEOVIT methodology but I also cut down on feeding and made sure that all my filters are cleaned every other day.

So far so good. :)
 
I am in the process of setting up a refugium which I will house macro algae to assist with the exportation of nutrients. Ill also look into a couple other methods and see how that goes.
 
At this point the nitrates are not coming from over feeding because there is nothing in the tank. What is the ZEOVIT method and where can I get more info on that? Thanks
 
As folks can see, people have fairly different opinions on what nitrate levels seem to work beast, and that is not surprising for several reasons.

Not only do folks likely keep different creatures, but what the creatures really need from nitrate is a source of nitrogen. Since nitrate is definitely not the only source of nitrogen in reef aquaria, people may get very different responses to changing nitrate if they have different levels of other nitrogen sources, such as available ammonia and/or nitrogen-containing organics such as amino acids and proteins. Zoox in corals, for example, like to consume ammonia. :)

FWIW, natural seawater levels of nitrate on many reefs is pretty low. Often below 0.1 ppm.

If people have coral problems at this level (0.1 ppm nitrate), it might not be best portrayed as a low nitrate problem, but a nutritional problem from a deficiency of other natural nutrients for these corals, and while boosting nitrate might help them, adding other nitrogen sources, such as amino acids, might in some ways be more natural and many folks have found it useful for their aquaria. :)
 
At this point the nitrates are not coming from over feeding because there is nothing in the tank. What is the ZEOVIT method and where can I get more info on that? Thanks

Zeovit is one of many methods that incorporate organic carbon dosing to drive nutrients very low. They also have a lot of other additives and "secret" ingredients. I'd do a search on zeovit if you are interested in that specific brand line.
 
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So I have begun the Red Sea Reef Mature Program due to many issues with my tanks nitrates. After 4 days these are my levels and I am still in the program.

High Range PH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm

I will continue with the program and keep you updated on the progress of my tank.
 
ImageUploadedByREEF2REEF1442098734.602450.jpg


So I have begun the Red Sea Reef Mature Program due to many issues with my tanks nitrates. After 4 days these are my levels and I am still in the program.

High Range PH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm

I will continue with the program and keep you updated on the progress of my tank.

What was the nitrate 4 days ago when you started?
 

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