Reducing nitrates after cycle without big water change?

[Yoder]

Hey everyone, I think my fishless cycle is finished on my first saltwater tank (120g DT + 40g sump). I used Dr.Tims and ammonium chloride.

My water parameters are:

1.025 SG
0.25 ammonia API (0 Salifert)
~60 Nitrate (Salifert)
Undetectable Phosphates
10 dKH
480 Ca

I'm going to QT my fish, so I've got several sponge filters in my sump fuge area.

My question is, what is my best bet for lowering nitrates to acceptable levels? I know doing a huge water change is a surefire way, but it feels so wasteful when my water is otherwise on point.

I think I could put cheato in the fuge, but I don't the ratio of phosphates and nitrates I have would sustain cheato growth, and I'm not sure how successful I would be with zero phosphate, or how long that might take.

Any suggestions are welcome!

 

[Jekyl]

You never want zero nitrate of phosphate. Adding chaeto would be a good method. As it grows you will learn light cycle and size of cheato as it pertains to removed nitrate. You should allow a couple months before trying any corals. Get accustomed to parameters, nutrient export, and how much feeding raises those levels. That said, now is the best time to do a large water change. Before you have things in the tank that require stability and you still have high nitrate.

 

[GARRIGA]

I used NoPox to lower the nitrates on a recent build. Did have to first raise my phosphates before they dropped.

 

[Yoder]

I used NoPox to lower the nitrates on a recent build. Did have to first raise my phosphates before they dropped.

I was looking at using trisodium phosphate to increase my phosphates. Is that what you used?

 

[GARRIGA]

I was looking at using trisodium phosphate to increase my phosphates. Is that what you used?

Used NeoPhos. Cheap enough in a small quantity and instructions easy enough to follow. Not like I’m looking to use it often. Once fish were added there feed supplied the necessary phosphates.

 

[Yoder]

I decided to do a 20%-40% water change, see where that puts my nitrate level. I've also got cheato and food grade trisodium phosphate on the way. Hoping the fuge can bring my nitrate levels the rest of the way down.

Definitely keeping my DT lights off for now, I don't have fish yet, and they will be spending 37 days in QT, so no rush there. Although I'm eager to get a small CUC in my DT, I'll put off the uglies as long as I can.

 

[Yoder]

Did at 22% water change Saturday, followed by a 44% water change Sunday, still sitting at ~40 PPM nitrate. Dosed phosphates up to .08 PPM, adding cheato to fuge today.

 

[ReefGeezer]

If you don't have any organisms in the tank to add ammonia, ghost feeding or adding small amounts of an ammonium chloride solution would be a good idea to keep your nitrification system going. Sucks though... either method will also add nitrates.

 

[1ocean]

Build or buy (kinda pricey) a Sulfur and Aragonite reactor ..

 

[GARRIGA]

If you’re Fishless then 80% WC not going to disturb the bacteria but will put a minor dent on nitrates and phosphates. I just prefer taking a natural approach since they will eventually return if you keep dosing ammonium chloride to keep the biological media active.

Carbon dosing isn’t an overnight thing and best fine tune it now while there are no fish. That’s how I approached it. Only did one WC post cycle and that was to lower salinity so I could introduce freshwater mollies for my experiment. Nitrates were 5 ppm or lower and phosphates at less than 0.25 ppm.

 

[Yoder]

If you’re Fishless then 80% WC not going to disturb the bacteria but will put a minor dent on nitrates and phosphates. I just prefer taking a natural approach since they will eventually return if you keep dosing ammonium chloride to keep the biological media active.

Carbon dosing isn’t an overnight thing and best fine tune it now while there are no fish. That’s how I approached it. Only did one WC post cycle and that was to lower salinity so I could introduce freshwater mollies for my experiment. Nitrates were 5 ppm or lower and phosphates at less than 0.25 ppm.

I've stopped adding ammonium chloride when I realized my nitrates were going to go sky high. I didn't even do the final dose at 2PPM to see if it drops in 24 hours, since I'm along way from fish.

I'll look into carbon dosing; I've shied away so far, because I often see it referred to as an "advanced topic".

 

[Jekyl]

I've stopped adding ammonium chloride when I realized my nitrates were going to go sky high. I didn't even do the final dose at 2PPM to see if it drops in 24 hours, since I'm along way from fish.

I'll look into carbon dosing; I've shied away so far, because I often see it referred to as an "advanced topic".

Carbon dosing isn't an over night solution. It took a month or so before NoPox made a difference in my system. Even then it stabilized rather than reduced. Water changes are still your best friend. One 80% or more and be done with it.

 

[GARRIGA]

I've stopped adding ammonium chloride when I realized my nitrates were going to go sky high. I didn't even do the final dose at 2PPM to see if it drops in 24 hours, since I'm along way from fish.

I'll look into carbon dosing; I've shied away so far, because I often see it referred to as an "advanced topic".

I prefer to continue dosing ammonium chloride until fish are added and keep increasing the dosage to stress test the biological filter. Best time to do this plus it ensure a larger established population of bacteria has developed. In essence, maturation of that biological media.

Carbon dosing isn't that advanced. Only if you try using vodka and or vinegar or combination of them. I just spend the extra cash and use NoPox. Start at half the recommended dosage then slowly increase it from there. I'm currently at twice the recommended dosage and don't even have a skimmer. Do have a very large biological filter along with trapping detritus to allow carbon to constantly exist for the heterotrophic bacteria to have as a source so they can reduce nitrates.

About once a week I add Macrobacter 7 as instructed although at this point probably more of a placebo than needed since I'm not skimming any out and they should be replicating. Heterotrophs split every 40 minutes. My goal has always been about stability which comes with time and by minimizing the tinkering. Nature finds a way unless you get in it's way.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I've stopped adding ammonium chloride when I realized my nitrates were going to go sky high. I didn't even do the final dose at 2PPM to see if it drops in 24 hours, since I'm along way from fish.

I'll look into carbon dosing; I've shied away so far, because I often see it referred to as an "advanced topic".

That'll work. Just add a little flake food once a week until you get something in the tank that creates ammonia. At the temperature we keep our tanks, bacteria can be lost in as little as two weeks. It could take much longer to actually lose enough for the system to become ineffective, but why take the risk when the it is so simple to keep it going.

I just thought of something. 60 pbpm is quite a it of nitrate to be generated from an initial 2 ppm dose of ammonia. Have you checked nitrites? Your nitrate test can show very high if nitrites are still preset. If your ammonia just reached 0, nitrites may still be present.

I would not recommend carbon dosing now . It will bind the nitrogen compounds that the bacteria that you are trying to establish needs. I would also be careful with phosphate. .08 is plenty high.

Checking nitrite, if you haven't, doing some water changes if you want lower nitrate, and patience is really about all that is needed. Sorry, I know all the differing information is confusing. I would suggest that, at this point, adding anything would be a bad move.

 

[Spare time]

I decided to do a 20%-40% water change, see where that puts my nitrate level. I've also got cheato and food grade trisodium phosphate on the way. Hoping the fuge can bring my nitrate levels the rest of the way down.

Definitely keeping my DT lights off for now, I don't have fish yet, and they will be spending 37 days in QT, so no rush there. Although I'm eager to get a small CUC in my DT, I'll put off the uglies as long as I can.

Go 45 days at 81F (it is only a couple more days and meets the minemum required for ich, velvet, etc.)

 

[Yoder]

That'll work. Just add a little flake food once a week until you get something in the tank that creates ammonia. At the temperature we keep our tanks, bacteria can be lost in as little as two weeks. It could take much longer to actually lose enough for the system to become ineffective, but why take the risk when the it is so simple to keep it going.

I just thought of something. 60 pbpm is quite a it of nitrate to be generated from an initial 2 ppm dose of ammonia. Have you checked nitrites? Your nitrate test can show very high if nitrites are still preset. If your ammonia just reached 0, nitrites may still be present.

I would not recommend carbon dosing now . It will bind the nitrogen compounds that the bacteria that you are trying to establish needs. I would also be careful with phosphate. .08 is plenty high.

Checking nitrite, if you haven't, doing some water changes if you want lower nitrate, and patience is really about all that is needed. Sorry, I know all the differing information is confusing. I would suggest that, at this point, adding anything would be a bad move.

I actually don't have a nitrite test kit. But I had read that nitrites can throw off the nitrate test.

My problem with dosing ammonia began with using only a Salifert kit, and it apparently doesn't detect ammonium chloride, so I did overdose a little. I use the API kit now.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Best way to reduce nitrates and phosphates is to grow something... While waiting for fish to QT why not add corals, macroalgae, something? The good thing about growing stuff is that it can never truly bottom out either.

 

[Yoder]

Best way to reduce nitrates and phosphates is to grow something... While waiting for fish to QT why not add corals, macroalgae, something? The good thing about growing stuff is that it can never truly bottom out either.

My cheato should arrive today. Not sure how fast it lowers nitrates, or even how fast/slow is "good", I just know my current nitrates are too high.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I actually don't have a nitrite test kit. But I had read that nitrites can throw off the nitrate test.

My problem with dosing ammonia began with using only a Salifert kit, and it apparently doesn't detect ammonium chloride, so I did overdose a little. I use the API kit now.

Actually, it detects the level you are worried about, but doesn't detect "total ammonia". I won't bore you with the details. The ammonia the your test kit can detect, and all of the recommendations of "dose to 2 ppm" are referring to that ammonia that results from dosing ammonium chloride, or liquid ammonia, or resulting from rotting shrimp, or created by starter fish. If your kit reported 2 or 3 ppm, you didn't overdose.

If your ammonia level just hit zero, your nitrite level is probably still elevated and your nitrate test is impacted. That said, nitrite isn't terribly toxic. Adding Cheato would still be fine, but sometimes it doesn't do so well in brand new systems.

 

[Yoder]

Actually, it detects the level you are worried about, but doesn't detect "total ammonia". I won't bore you with the details. The ammonia the your test kit can detect, and all of the recommendations of "dose to 2 ppm" are referring to that ammonia that results from dosing ammonium chloride, or liquid ammonia, or resulting from rotting shrimp, or created by starter fish. If your kit reported 2 or 3 ppm, you didn't overdose.

If your ammonia level just hit zero, your nitrite level is probably still elevated and your nitrate test is impacted. That said, nitrite isn't terribly toxic.

My ammonia has been reading "zero" on the API for a few days, about a week on Salifert.

Adding Cheato would still be fine, but sometimes it doesn't do so well in brand new systems.

That's why I dosed a little trisodium phosphate, at least to get detectable PO4. I won't dose enough to bring it up to the Redfield ratio or anything, but I know absolute zero phosphates (or nitrates) is bad.