"Reef Safe" butterflies

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Rex said:
Ok I'm sorry I have such a "small tank". I'm only 16 I've been in the hobby for 5 years, and I'm sorry I can't afford a huge tank like you have where can almost stock anything... I have to deal with what I have now (which I'm more then happy with), and won't be able to upgrade until the future in a few years....
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Yeah, that is what I figured... :)

Nothing wrong with wanting larger, cooler fish...

It is just the smart person that knows that they just have to have them with what they have.

I would LOVE to have a Sohal Tang - absolutely beautiful fish!

But I know my 210 gallon tank is not big enough for him - so I don't get him.

I would LOVE to have a Panther Grouper - another absolutely stunning fish when it swims, etc.

But again, I know my 210 gallon tank is not big enough for him (and he will eat any fish he can get in his mouth!) - so I won't get him.

Nothing wrong with liking beautiful fish...

You just have to know what you can and can't have in the equipment you have.

I thought you liked the idea of a Flame Angel?

That is a beautiful fish!
 
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salty150 said:
Yeah, that is what I figured... :)

Nothing wrong with wanting larger, cooler fish...

It is just the smart person that knows that they just have have them with what they have.

I would LOVE to have a Sohal Tang - absolutely beautiful fish!

But I know my 210 gallon tank is not big enough for him - so I don't get him.

I would LOVE to have a Panther Grouper - another absolutely stunning fish when it swims, etc.

But again, I know my 210 gallon tank is not big enough for him (and he will eat any fish he can get in his mouth!) - so I won't get him.

Nothing wrong with liking beautiful fish...

You just have to know what you can and can't have in the equipment you have.

I thought you liked the idea of a Flame Angel?

That is a beautiful fish!
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Flame angels are nice yes,
Might go with a few wrasses instead.
I also like the Multibar Dwarf Angels
Always thought I'd be cool to have a pair or trio... or even a single one
 
Rex said:
Flame angels are nice yes,
Might go with a few wrasses instead.
I also like the Multibar Dwarf Angels
Always thought I'd be cool to have a pair or trio... or even a single one
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Just be aware dwarf angels are prone to nip at corals, especially fleshy LPS.
 
Orphek OR3 reef aquarium LED bar
I have a few...my Pyramid is probably the safest, but these two and my Majestic are the primary nippers in my tank. I feed heavily so nipping is minimal and haven't observed any damage directly related to them. The only draw back none of my SPS have PE during the day and just like in nature they come alive with PE at night....

IMG_4433_zpssvookvmv.jpg


IMG_4437_zps6gmqci1w.jpg


IMG_4483_zps35bmfuki.jpg
 
I do like pakinstan butterfly's and pyramids... not sure my tank is larger enough for either of them?
 
My copperband was the most recent addition to my 125. It is out in the open almost always. I have a lot of rock, and the system is plumbed into the basement where I have two 55g drums as sumps. Surprisingly, I am starting to see it swim quickly when I put in brine shrimp. I love the copperbands, but I wouldnt put one in a 60g tank unless I planned to get a bigger tank in the near future, and was sure I had a huge pod population. You gous wouldnt believe the pod population I have, and I cant post videos here.
 
Engloid said:
My copperband was the most recent addition to my 125. It is out in the open almost always. I have a lot of rock, and the system is plumbed into the basement where I have two 55g drums as sumps. Surprisingly, I am starting to see it swim quickly when I put in brine shrimp. I love the copperbands, but I wouldnt put one in a 60g tank unless I planned to get a bigger tank in the near future, and was sure I had a huge pod population. You gous wouldnt believe the pod population I have, and I cant post videos here.
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Yea I'm trying to find out what other fish to put in, so far I've decided on a few wrasses.

I do like the burgess butterfly which says it gets 5 1/2" http://m.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+25+1845&pcatid=1845

I also like the Atlantic longnose butterfly which gets 4"
http://m.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+25+1315&pcatid=1315

Thoughts on these 2? I think these especially the burgess would suite my tank size well...
 
Engloid said:
I havent had either.
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Do you know if the Burgess is reef safe? Everywhere I look it says "with caution" which is for almost every butterfly... some as you know are better then others.
 
www.dinkinsaquaticgardens.com
After digging deeper into butterfly species, I found many species such as the Tinker butterfly and Burgess butterfly to only get a max of 5".
I've also read many articles such as the one on ReefBuilders that states these species seem to be a very good choice for "reef safe butterfly's".
So it seems as if the more rare and expensive butterfly's both don't get as big as the others and are a lot similar to copperbands and pyramids with reef safety ( of course besides a little nipping here and there).
In one of the articles I read it said you should compare reef safe butterfly's to angels... which means you should expect some nipping here and there on corals.
Also as mentioned above a lot of these butterfly's only get a max size of 5". So I dug deeper with interest of adding one into my reef because of the smaller size. Here's what I came up with,
Quote - "Most deepwater species of Butterflies are less risky to introduce to reef aquariums than shallow water species, but they still may pose a threat to any polyps, mushrooms, soft corals, LPS, and even SPS. When deepwater species of butterflies are introduced into a very mature SPS aquarium with large colonies that are 5" or greater, the damage that one of these fish can inflict on a single colony is significantly reduced".
So in conclusion since these are "deep water butterfly's" they are consider around 85% reef safe (may nip at LPS not fed enough.
They've also been proven to do great in smaller tanks (as far as butterflyfish go).
Here are a few photos of them,
IMG_4574.JPG

Burgess' Butterflyfish(Chaetodon burgessi
IMG_4575.JPG

Tinkeri Butterflyfish (Chaetodon tinkeri)

IMG_4576.JPG

Declivis Butterflyfish(Chaetodon declivis)
IMG_4577.JPG

Longnose Atlantic Butterflyfish(Prognathodes aculeatus)
IMG_4578.JPG

Marcella Butterfly(Prognathodes marcellae)
IMG_4579.JPG

Mitratus Butterflyfish(Chaetodon mitratus)
 
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I personally would not get any butterfly or angel. I think the previous suggestions of wrasses, gobies, cardinals, etc are much better options. I'd wait until you actually are ready to get a bigger tank to get any of those, and even then, there are very few of them that are reasonably reef safe.

I know you want a show fish, but I just don't think a) it would be good for the fish or b) you'd really get the enjoyment out of the fish you think you will. How about focusing on a centerpiece coral?
 
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msderganc said:
I personally would not get any butterfly or angel. I think the previous suggestions of wrasses, gobies, cardinals, etc are much better options. I'd wait until you actually are ready to get a bigger tank to get any of those, and even then, there are very few of them that are reasonably reef safe.

I know you want a show fish, but I just don't think a) it would be good for the fish or b) you'd really get the enjoyment out of the fish you think you will. How about focusing on a centerpiece coral?
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My tanks already full of SPS coral ;) I don't really have any room left maybe spots for 1 or 2 acros.
I am thinking about a few wrasse.
Do you think they burgess butterfly is a decent fish? From what I read they are very safe because in the ocean they live in the deep water where not many corals are.
They also are on the smaller side as butterfly's go... only achieving a max size of 5 inches.
They are well suited for smaller tanks (55+) as long as they are provided enough caves to hide in.
Sorry lol as you can probably tell butterfly's are my favorite species of fish :D
 
I've never claimed to be an "expert" in anything! I also let Rex know that I wasn't an "expert" at butterfly fish.

I also urged Rex to to make this post for the "experts" to answer. One of the things that I told him is you will always have people who agree with you and people who disagree with you and he needs to do his research, due dilligence and make an educated decision based off of what is best for the animal.

What I didn't expect was sending a 16 year old off to be brow beaten by the masses. Good job. Remember Reef2Reef isn't all old hardened souls!
Sometimes tact is more effective than being read the riot act.

Get some fairy wrasses @Rex! They're awesome fish with great personalities. (Get a screen top, before you do though)
 
I trust the experts at liveaquaria regarding minimum tank sizes. I would not focus so much on the maximum size the fish will grow to. There are other factors play into the minimum tank size recommendation such as need for swimming room, sufficient territory, etc. For instance, LA lists the burgessi and tinkeri as both getting to 5.5". However, the min tank recommendation for burgessi is 70g and tinkeri is 120g. Quite a big difference for the same size fish. So I would not think that just because they get to only 5" it would be okay to add them to your tank. Trust the experts at LA with their recommendations.
 
+1 for the pyramids I have 2 in my tank for a few years in a full mixed reef and clams. I wouldn't recommend 2 for a 60 though.
 
My experiences with copperbands is pretty extensive. I've owned a few myself and have a few within customers tanks I take care of. For the most part they are a very peaceful and shy fish when first introduced. Making sure any specimen you may be interested in is readily eating is the single most important thing.

Due to their demure personality I have had much greater success with them in smaller tanks. In smaller tanks it is much easier for them to get at food being fed. And while they are constantly occupied exploring every nook and cranny, I haven't observed much of difference in behavior of copperbands in larger tanks vs smaller tanks. The only significant difference is that copperbands in smaller tanks acclimate to captivity faster and are much bolder than those in larger tanks.

Having peaceful, smaller tankmates that also require multiple feedings also is pivitol to success with copperbands in the beginning. I've had copperbandd be fine with bolder species, but they thrive with calmer ones.

The tank that I have personally dealt with that has had the most success with delicate species, including copperbands is a 24"x 24" 60g cube tank. They have an almost full grown copperband that just 2 years ago was a tiny juvenile. It's growth rate is great, it is incredibly bold, always greating anybody at the front of the tank. The tank is aquascaped as a single tall structure with a cave in the bottom 1/3, so the copperband can swim around and explore. They feed heavily for other tankmates which include a trio of randalls anthias, a tiger jawfish, multibarred angel, banded pipefish, seahorse, among a few others.

Feeding, peaceful tankmates, and properly aqua scaped surroundings, as well as water quality are all of far greater significanse than tank size.
 
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