Reef Tank without fish?

[brandon429]

in my fish analogy above, a max of three trimma gobies could be in play lol.

 

[Doctorgori]

here meaning R2R? Im not sure, but id be kind of surprised if it were. i feel like there are some people with ones up to like 60ish? i usually see it more in the AIO tanks rather than sumped tanks just as an observation.
Its the largest invert only tank that ive done tho. and it was sort of not on purpose, it originally housed a single rainford goby for many years, but then it died of old age, and then we moved into a new house and after moving we just never got another fish for it. and since us moving all the nems in there, id actually be kind of nervous to put any fish in there, as they may get eaten by mistake. when the rainford was in there it was just soft and lps corals, no nems.

so is the tank easier?

 

[GlassMunky]

so is the tank easier?

FAAAAAAAARRRRRR easier than my 220G Mixed Reef

I literally just fill up the ATO chamber like 1-2x a week and thats it for the biocube. I rarely even clean the glass (thats why the pic i posted is a top down view lol)
Maybe do a WC like every 3 months or so, whenever i have some extra time and extra water after the big tanks WC. No testing at all.

For the 220, Im dosing ALK/CA/MAG, which means testing as well. then i feed the tank 2-3x a day as well clean the glass about 2x a week and other maintenance like skimmer cup, carbon reactor etc.

Edit: I guess I should really say its a lot less maintenance. i don't really feel either are necessarily "hard" as i tried to simplify as much as i could during design of the 220 system.

 

[GlassMunky]

220g for comparison

 

[brandon429]

its nice to know that when on vacation, no disease is going to wipe out my fish / come home to a gray reef tank. fish are cool but giant liability compared to fishless. something mechanical would have to go wrong in absence for it to crash, but with fish there's an amazing tendency to only die when we're gone/post patterns on file.

I think a fishless system is more stable than one with fish, there's no loss cascade potential with fallow systems. I get that most people associate fish with reef/won't like a reef without them. I just like corals.

far less waste incursion rates for the system without fish...I go longer in between service cleaning than regularly stocked tanks too.

 

[SueAubu]

Like someone else, I had to have this tank lay fallow. It's 220g and nothing but lps, softies and nems... (A few monster hermits, snails, some tube worms that came with it and would t die off and one TRULY immortal urchin that stays on his one rock and eats no one else) Which is all I have in any tank. I throw in some reef roids every couple weeks and feed the big mouth guys frozen a couple times (ok 1x) a week because it's so fun to watch them eat! It works!
This is a completely frankenstein-ed tank because it's just a stopover during a 500g build, but I looked at it this morning and was pretty proud of it! (Minus the dinos)... So funny thing that I just saw your post!

Give it a shot! Start a new "THING"! HAHAHA

 

[SueAubu]

I think a fishless system is more stable than one with fish, there's no loss cascade potential with fallow systems. I get that most people associate fish with reef/won't like a reef without them. I just like corals.

far less waste incursion rates for the system without fish...I go longer in between service cleaning than regularly stocked tanks too.

When I was a truly stupid NEWB and didn't even know what LPS/SPS meant, I ordered the pretties that were a good deal over in our market area and started with all SPS and fish. BOOM!!!!! Without constant attention (and I had just gone back to school), plus not knowing a thing about a thing, it crashed. My nitrates were off the charts- hair algae- dinos- you name it!

When I REstarted my attempts at a reef system, I decided to go fishless for just these reasons. (Keep in mind as I tell my story, this was only in...11/22) I told myself that I was going to stay small (29g, HoB filter, light bar, 1 wave fan), do my research, pick corals wisely, mayyyyyybe get a fish for poo purposes. So I got a watchman goby. It was in the bedroom and lovely.

Then Hubby and grandboy went shopping and came home with a couple clowns someone had left with the local box store to rehome. I had (and still do) HUGE amphipods, so I got a neon dotyback- who now just beats up my poor goby and ignores the free lunch).TG/UC/ASD/ whomever had weekend live sales..... The 2nd fish threw everything off. Then, I actually had to water test and adjust parameters. I had to DO WATER CHANGES!! (?!?!?!?!- hadn't had to touch the water, ever!)

One year later: 95 gallon fish and reef. 55 gal fowlr for the jerk fish who hardly get along with each other... 55 gal rescued tank with softies and fish... and Hubby jumping on the bandwagon with big plans to combine them all into a 500g build. We have self-control issues, apparently. I had to buy Hanna water test kits. I had to learn about dosing nitrates, phosphates and magnesium. I add amino acids and vitamins for color and growth (which I probably would have learned about, anyway, because it makes my invert babies SO VERY HAPPY). I have to do water changes! URGH! Fish ruin everything! LOL

Every day I appreciate this 220 gal laying fallow (from other rescued fish), more and more. I love that I can just zen with my coral-only tank, look at the pretty colors and watch them sway.

So thanks for this thread. Thanks for reading. Thanks for my moment of tank over-kill therapy. Gotta go check out TG's live sale!

 

[SueAubu]

so is the tank easier?

Yes
Yes!
Yes!!!

Corals are nice enough to get most of what they need through photosynthesis. Some will tell you they don't add anything but light. But that's no fun... Still, without fish, parameters stay the same. No spikes, no worries, no water changes. No testing!! In fact, I would just add fresh water now and then to bring my salinity back down from evaporation. Some shelled, crawling CuC took care of detritus. Completely zen.

 

[vcnt]

220g for comparison

Wow thats a nice tank, what are the dimensions?

 

[GlassMunky]

Wow thats a nice tank, what are the dimensions?

72x30x24 Planet Aquarium

 

[Harpo]

I really want to implement this. Do you ever have to feed your coral?

 

[GlassMunky]

I really want to implement this. Do you ever have to feed your coral?

No not really. Photosynthesis takes care of it

 

[brandon429]

yes because they must eat, = not exclusively photosynthetic.

that doesnt mean they must be directly fed...lots of people with fish are feeding fish and that's where the input begins.


due to classification, heterotroph vs autotroph, routine protein intake + digestion required for life although I'm sure some systems can be tuned to very very low inputs if needed

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If you want corals to grow, you MUST be adding N and P into the tank somehow, along with trace elements and if they are hard corals, you also need calcium and alkalinity, Feeding inverts may provide the needed N and P.

 

[GlassMunky]

If you want corals to grow, you MUST be adding N and P into the tank somehow, long with trace elements and if they are hard corals, you also need calcium and alkalinity, Feeding inverts may provide the needed N and P.

Tell that to my tank that doesn’t get fed and has been growing corals for years….

 

[GlassMunky]

If you want corals to grow, you MUST be adding N and P into the tank somehow, long with trace elements and if they are hard corals, you also need calcium and alkalinity, Feeding inverts may provide the needed N and P.

In this instance where I’m not feeding, wheee is that magical N and P coming that I MUST be adding in?

 

[GlassMunky]

In these types of tanks it’s essentially a closed system.

Photosynthesis grows algae, algae is then eaten by CUC and converted to waste, or it dies and decomposes turning into waste. That waste then feeds the algae to regrow and recycle over and over again. Nothing new needs adding except the light for that photosynthesis to take place.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I’ve had FOWLR tanks but are there any Coral only “without fish” tanks around? (COWOF yet another acronym lol)
anyway I did a tentative search already: nothing…
but is this even a thing and: or are there threads already?
has Anyone thought about it?

You mean a frag tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In this instance where I’m not feeding, wheee is that magical N and P coming that I MUST be adding in?

I don't know, but its not magical. Are your corals actually growing?

You tell me where it comes from. What all goes into the tank? Tap water? Coral foods? Invert foods? corals that die? Breakdown of detritus that accumulated previously?

But I can say with absolute 100% certainty, any coral that is growing takes up N and P in significant amounts, so unless it is added somehow or something else dies in the tank, they are not growing overall. That's no stronger of a statement than saying a human child won't grow without food.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In these types of tanks it’s essentially a closed system.

Photosynthesis grows algae, algae is then eaten by CUC and converted to waste, or it dies and decomposes turning into waste. That waste then feeds the algae to regrow and recycle over and over again. Nothing new needs adding except the light for that photosynthesis to take place.

That's just not true. No closed aquarium system can support growing corals for long. Photosynthesis provides energy and a carbon source to make organic molecules. It does not provide anything else.

You must have a source of N and P to make coral tissues, algae, or any other organism that is greater in amount than what was there are the start. .