Reefers Moonshine Method - Let's discuss

[Reefahholic]

Thanks, I had not seen that.

Wind has a huge effect on air turnover in homes. I see it also in radon measurements that I've been taking.

Interestingly, so does the difference between indoor and outdoor temp. A higher temp inside drives more air flow into a home at the bottom and out the top, or the other way around when outside is hot. The result can be a change in pH.

It’s really interesting when you look into it. I hate to derail this thread but forgive me for just posted a few graphs. Look at the high’s and low’s and the dates. Exactly when the front came through. Although keep in mind If a reefer was farther north, his pH changed first.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If we accept the premise that many folks see increased coloration in their corals than they did before starting the method, it begs the question why.

1. Is it because one or more things are unusually elevated relative to NSW? (e.g., exceeding NSW in one or more elements?) If so, which ones?
2. Is it because the method results in more things being appropriately bioavailable but not toxic? (e.g., matching NSW in more ways than before?)
3. Is it due wholly or partly to stability in trace element bioavailability?
4. Is it not trace element related, but more to do with minor elements? (e.g., bromide, fluoride, etc.)

 

[Reefahholic]

If we accept the premise that many folks see increased coloration in their corals than they did before starting the method, it begs the question why.

1. Is it because one or more things are unusually elevated relative to NSW? (e.g., exceeding NSW in one or more elements?) If so, which ones?
2. Is it because the method results in more things being appropriately bioavailable but not toxic? (e.g., matching NSW in more ways than before?)
3. Is it due wholly or partly to stability in trace element bioavailability?
4. Is it not trace element related, but more to do with minor elements? (e.g., bromide, fluoride, etc.)

I think the short answer is a number of those things listed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy, am I correct in concluding that one of your issues with a system that relies on monthly tests to measure elements that fluctuate daily is that the tests are necessarily prone to a high degree of error; i.e. if your sample was pulled when, say iron, was at a low level for the day and you adjust based on that test result, you will be overdosing for the actual mean level?

Are these errors mediated by repeating the tests each month? Or are they equally likely to be exacerbated?

Just concerned that the low level ions that are not being targeted by ICP seems to be taking the word of the company that the amount is optimal, just like all other additive systems. It eliminates the advantage of addressing all ions separately, and makes the system only partly optimized, IMO, since it obviously is not customized to a specific aquarium's needs,

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think the short answer is a number of those things listed.

To advance the hobby, one wants more complete answers.

 

[Reefahholic]

Randy,

To advance the hobby, one wants more complete answers.

;Hilarious

I think the answers are a bit complicated and not as easy and simple associated to the chemistry, but also to the influence on the biology and microfauna.

 

[Scdell]

Randy,

;Hilarious

I think the answers are a bit complicated and not as easy and simple associated to the chemistry, but also to the influence on the biology and microfauna.

Exactly!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Randy,

;Hilarious

I think the answers are a bit complicated and not as easy and simple associated to the chemistry, but also to the influence on the biology and microfauna.

The answers have to be chemistry at the heart, since there is no other aspect to the program (no bacteria dosed, etc.. The problem is that its a lot of work for little reward to tease out the answers.

 

[Scdell]

The answers have to be chemistry at the heart, since there is no other aspect to the program (no bacteria dosed, etc.. The problem is that its a lot of work for little reward to tease out the answers.

It is actually recommended to dose Biodigest.

 

[Reefahholic]

The answers have to be chemistry at the heart, since there is no other aspect to the program (no bacteria dosed, etc.. The problem is that its a lot of work for little reward to tease out the answers.

We dose bacteria. Secret sauce!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

We dose bacteria. Secret sauce!

OK, so now we are into magic potions again. lol

Still, the answers to the questions I asked are able to be answered, but they likely won't be because it is too much work to determine the effect of every ion dosed at different concentrations to different organisms.

The answers to each question are what science does.

 

[dvgyfresh]

We dose bacteria. Secret sauce!

What’s a good bacteria to dose ? I’ve been thinking of adding probidio bio digest once a month or so

 

[Reefahholic]

OK, so now we are into magic potions again. lol

Still, the answers to the questions I asked are able to be answered, but they likely won't be because it is too much work to determine the effect of every ion dosed at different concentrations to different organisms.

Randy you’re asking some in-depth questions and not just one! Multiple questions that have more than one answer. Many things in this hobby are not fully understood yet.

 

[Reefahholic]

What’s a good bacteria to dose ? I’ve been thinking of adding probido digest once a month or so

I was just picking about the secret sauce. Andre doses the Biodigest. I Personally use a lot of Dr. Tim’s products.

 

[dvgyfresh]

I was just picking about the secret sauce. Andre doses the Biodigest. I Personally use a lot of Dr. Tim’s products.

Thanks for the input , I think another important part of the method is to dose different bacteria strains to keep a healthy biodiversity well I guess this is true for all methods lol

 

[Reefahholic]

Thanks for the input , I think another important part of the method is to dose different bacteria strains to keep a healthy biodiversity well I guess this is true for all methods lol

Absolutely!

Here’s one of my main sources:

 

[dvgyfresh]

Absolutely!

Here’s one of my main sources:

Haha that’s awesome ! I want to go to the beaches near me to collect some mud , I’m unsure tho because it would be the so cal beaches so cold water vs tropical , bacteria probly wouldn’t care lol

 

[Reefahholic]

1. Is it because one or more things are unusually elevated relative to NSW? (e.g., exceeding NSW in one or more elements?) If so, which ones?

Yes, and if you read the FREE Handbook you will know. ;Hilarious

2. Is it because the method results in more things being appropriately bioavailable but not toxic? (e.g., matching NSW in more ways than before?)

When most reefers get on the program they are way more in tune with their systems! Elements that were typically depleted, low, or toxic are now in range.

3. Is it due wholly or partly to stability in trace element bioavailability?

The stability increases a lot with this method due to most elements being either in range or slightly elevated. There risk of an element being low or depleted is much less than if you were sitting at NSW.

4. Is it not trace element related, but more to do with minor elements? (e.g., bromide, fluoride, etc.)

I can tell you from seeing the ICP’s that Fluoride is depleted a lot and a ton is dosed to some systems.

 

[Reefahholic]

Haha that’s awesome ! I want to go to the beaches near me to collect some mud , I’m unsure tho because it would be the so cal beaches so cold water vs tropical , bacteria probly wouldn’t care lol

The bacteria here don’t care. Our winters get down in the 30’s, 20’s…as long as they are not frozen.

 

[Reefahholic]

Haha that’s awesome ! I want to go to the beaches near me to collect some mud , I’m unsure tho because it would be the so cal beaches so cold water vs tropical , bacteria probly wouldn’t care lol

The mud where I collect fish and peps has the most life in between the jetty’s. However, it probably has the most pests too.