Reefing in Hawai'i: the ethics

[Runnin'Reefer]

Hello all! I recently moved to Hawai'i for grad school and am setting up a nice big FOWLR 90 g tank. I am hoping to catch some reef fish to put in the tank and am going to be gifted some from a friend who is trying to get rid of some of his. Collecting reef fish is completely legal as long as they are not sold which I would never do. I don't plan on overfilling my tank. Just want to get a few tangs and some angelfish or butterflyfish. My buddy is giving me a Moorish Idol and some non Hawaiian species that a guy gave him when he bought his take like a blue tang, starry blenny, and royal gramma.

I recently had a less than pleasant interaction with a girl that is at UH doing her undergrad in marine science. I am getting my master's in marine science. She got really excited hearing about my tank and asked what I was going to put in it, so I said "anything I can catch." She frowned and immediately started berating me about the ethical issues with that idea. I explained that what I would do is completely legal, and she said that did not make it right and people like me are degrading the reefs.

I was curious what people on the forum would think about this and how they would respond to comments like this. I have no intention of degrading or damaging reefs or hurting populations. My school has a really cool aquaculture program that is doing some groundbreaking stuff with marine ornamentals that I am trying to work for which I think is a longterm solution to aquarium trade issues. Let me know what you think. I'm curious to hear!

 

[robotrash]

 

[zheka757]

I personally would avoid such people, period. I don't have patience for them

 

[dannyd_]

In high school I used to catch things and put them in fish tanks when I was first learning, and looking back I can say with confidence I have caused few to no ecosystem collapses lol. But in seriousness, my gf and I talked about this before as she studies marine science and she didn't say anything about this hobby contributing to the degradation of reefs, quite the opposite. It is this hobby that captures the interest of the public, and with that comes research funding towards the problems that are acutally causing damages to the reefs such as climate change. There will be more biodiversity in all the hobbiest reef tanks combined than in nature if something doesn't change, so I think it is important to preserve what we can, inspire those to make changes through funding research, and kindly redirect people's thought processes like the girl you interacted with.

 

[Spare time]

I try to stick with captive bred to avoid the issues of disrupting social lives and such of wild fish. Yes one fish doesn't matter much but still as a biologist I prefer to avoid interfering in wild animals' lives.

 

[Runnin'Reefer]

I try to stick with captive bred too as much as possible and it's cool to see how many options continue to pop up for captive bred fish. I just thought it would be cool to make a Hawaiian tank

 

[Runnin'Reefer]

In high school I used to catch things and put them in fish tanks when I was first learning, and looking back I can say with confidence I have caused few to no ecosystem collapses lol. But in seriousness, my gf and I talked about this before as she studies marine science and she didn't say anything about this hobby contributing to the degradation of reefs, quite the opposite. It is this hobby that captures the interest of the public, and with that comes research funding towards the problems that are acutally causing damages to the reefs such as climate change. There will be more biodiversity in all the hobbiest reef tanks combined than in nature if something doesn't change, so I think it is important to preserve what we can, inspire those to make changes through funding research, and kindly redirect people's thought processes like the girl you interacted with.

I like this perspective a lot and agree. Even my dad thought my reef tank at home was the coolest thing and always asked me questions about it. Now he sends me stuff about fish and tanks. Definitely a good way to foster curiosity and care in a careless world

 

[iReefer12]

What did she think you were gonna put in it when she at first got all excited? Just a glass box of water? Air?

She realizes that 90% of fish you buy at the store get caught, shipped around the world, sold via a wholesaler, sold via a retailer?

Ethically, I can see issues, but most things in life, that we do for fun have ethical issues when you dig deep enough. At the end of the day, I justify that we as hobbyist are doing everything we can to keep these fish fat, healthy, and to live a long life in a recreated as close to natural habitat as we can.

I hope she’s not pescatarian

 

[litsoh]

I would say, it's a lot more deep rooted issues that people here have in the islands with the use and exploitation of our resources, especially with how culturally connected we are to the ocean here. For me personally, going for corals is a huge no but catching from the approved list that you can find on the Dept of Fisheries (iirc that's the name?) and as long as you're well within the limits I don't really see an issue for it. The personal collection of fish is a lot less damaging to the ecosystem than the trawling nets or the pollution that's brought into the land and our waters.

 

[litsoh]

Also welcome to the islands!

 

[Runnin'Reefer]

I would say, it's a lot more deep rooted issues that people here have in the islands with the use and exploitation of our resources, especially with how culturally connected we are to the ocean here. For me personally, going for corals is a huge no but catching from the approved list that you can find on the Dept of Fisheries (iirc that's the name?) and as long as you're well within the limits I don't really see an issue for it. The personal collection of fish is a lot less damaging to the ecosystem than the trawling nets or the pollution that's brought into the land and our waters.

Yeah I can totally see that even from being here only a few months. I definitely plan on staying within all the regulations and rules and will never take any coral. The girl definitely was also not from the island and spoke to the aquarium trade as a whole

 

[jda]

Abundant, healthy fish populations will quickly have room for another to drop if one is taken from the reef. Often, the fish will live longer in the aquarium of a good hobbyist than in the wild where there is always a larger fish that is hungry. Hawaii has the most studied fish in the world. The fish that are on the collection list are abundant and sustainable.

There is no argument to be made for unethical keeping or illegal collecting.

These people could be right or wrong depending on the scenario, but I love how many of them have purebred dogs with plenty in shelters, or the like, where many question the ethics of this as well.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

I try to stick with captive bred too as much as possible and it's cool to see how many options continue to pop up for captive bred fish. I just thought it would be cool to make a Hawaiian tank

I would just avoid telling people what you are doing. I would love to be your age living in Hawaii and I would do exactly what you are planning. I am a hunter and have found it best to not talk about it except with those in my sphere. It will be something most of the reef keeping world has no ability to do.

 

[litsoh]

Yeah I can totally see that even from being here only a few months. I definitely plan on staying within all the regulations and rules and will never take any coral. The girl definitely was also not from the island and spoke to the aquarium trade as a whole

Personally, I’m gonna wait until my tank is a bit more established and then go out looking for a yellow tang to add. I’ve always loved the fish and had no idea how sought after Hawaiian Yellow Tangs are until taking at look at this forum.

 

[Subsea]

I have collected from salt water marshes and from the deep blue when Sargassom seaweed mats floated by dynamically positioned drillship, Discoverer Seven Seas.

In both Texas & Louisiana, all that is required by Wildlife & Fisheries is a fishing license. This is personal collection with no sales involved.

Enjoy your passion. I have a BS in Marine Engineering from Texas Maritime Academy. When I started, there was no internet or hobby forums. In fact, I was in the first engineering class that did not use a slide rule: Texas Instrument TI150 cost $150. AS a vet on the GI Bill, I received $175 a month. After four 90 day tours in Cambodia, it was amusing to me to see cadets marching with “spit shined shoes”. When Nixon announced at “Paris Peace talks” , “United States has no boots on the ground in Cambodia” the 101 Airborne Rangers asked to be issued moccasins to comply with our Commander in Chief. I was an Air Firce crew chief on Puff the Magic Dragon that provided ground support.

As a freshman Marine Engineer in 1971, I started a Galveston Bay theme tank, collecting grass shrimp & green mollies in salt water marshes, then collecting peppermint shrimp, curly que anemone and sea robins from the jetties at night. As an avid fisherman, collecting for reef tanks provided an educational component to both hobbies: fishing, reefing and collecting.

After 52 years, I admit that I am an “addicted reefer”
Shalom,
Patrick

 

[Debramb]

Personally, I’m gonna wait until my tank is a bit more established and then go out looking for a yellow tang to add. I’ve always loved the fish and had no idea how sought after Hawaiian Yellow Tangs are until taking at look at this forum.

Someone just posted he’s in Oahu and has YT’s I think he wants to sell. Wow, good for you and good for you’re career!!
Find a Naso for a Tang lover in Texas
Debra

 

[afrokobe]

While our hobby isn't great from an environmental perspective. The amount of harm collecting ornamental fish for reef keeping is minimal compared the amount of harm commercial fishing does.

Stay within guildelines/laws, I don't see any issues.

 

[aquaman67]

And a Vegan will tell you how evil my cheeseburger is.

Just avoid her.

 

[Jason_MrFrags]

Your in Hawaii, you can go fishing and kill a bunch of achilies tangs and eat them but you can't keep some to put in your tank? The point being both actions removes the fish from the reef. Does it matter what happens to it after?

Get a yellow tang or 2, Achilles tang, flame wrasse all the things that everyone else can no longer enjoy in their tanks.

 

[litsoh]

Your in Hawaii, you can go fishing and kill a bunch of achilies tangs and eat them but you can't keep some to put in your tank? The point being both actions removes the fish from the reef. Does it matter what happens to it after?

Get a yellow tang or 2, Achilles tang, flame wrasse all the things that everyone else can no longer enjoy in their tanks.

It's cause we recognize the fish as being a staple food source for Native Hawaiians/local families here. The laws regarding take amounts for food are also very strict to ensure that it's being done sustainably. That's not to say that there aren't some idiots from time to time taking more than what is needed/allowed but the locals as a whole understand sustainability and respecting the land.

It's just a sore spot for natives because there isn't much left that hasn't already been exploited by outside sources. I do think that everyone is on the same side though, no one wants to see fish populations decline.