ReefKeeper's Departure Hurts The Industry

[mcarroll]

I stayed up until well past my bedtime last night, reading this thread. (ugly as heck this morning for lack of my required beauty rest)

I'm not getting a controller. Never had one in the past. Don't NEED one. I thought I WANTED one, but not after reading this thread. I'll just do it all old school with DIY ingenuinty and regular ole test kits.

If I take that vacation to Europe in 2019 -- we may have a problem. I'm hoping to make it trouble free for a week at a time. If I can pull that off, I'll take the trip. I got a year to figure it out.

My wife and I just moved to Florida (Floriduuuuuh) in April. We don't know a soul here. Hoping to make some friends soon. Prolly join a local reef club and start attending meetings or frag swaps.

You may be better off using that year to find and train a Padawan learner to take care of it while you're away.

 

[mcarroll]

Honestly, a set of WiFi outlets might be the best option going:
https://www.postscapes.com/smart-outlets/

They aren't cheaper than a Reefkeeper (maybe similar $), but they don't ask for all the money up front/you can build the system as-needed. Capability would be defined by the apps they use....not familiar with any of them yet.

 

[Falcon53]

Honestly, a set of WiFi outlets might be the best option going:
https://www.postscapes.com/smart-outlets/

They aren't cheaper than a Reefkeeper (maybe similar $), but they don't ask for all the money up front/you can build the system as-needed. Capability would be defined by the apps they use....not familiar with any of them yet.

Are there any reliable temp controllers aside from the controllers we have been discussing? Because in my set-up, the only thing I actually need the controller for is temp control. I dose two-part on a timer, and control my lights. I don't need a full-blown controller at all, which is why I loved the Reefkeeper.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Are there any reliable temp controllers aside from the controllers we have been discussing? Because in my set-up, the only thing I actually need the controller for is temp control. I dose two-part on a timer, and control my lights. I don't need a full-blown controller at all, which is why I loved the Reefkeeper.

Either Inkbird or Ranco. What's critical is that you need to get the saltwater proof probe with either one.

 

[Greybeard]

We're talking from the builder's perspective not from the consumer's.

NewEgg is no more a builder than you are.

They buy stuff already licensed and being made in China and resell it.

You can do the same....buy something you like that's cheap on eBay, slap on your name – print money.

Ask someone like DA or Apex or really any of the other vendors in our hobby what it costs to implement WiFi or Bluetooth.

(I googled this one...read thru comments: https://www.microchip.com/forums/m1016226.aspx)

If NewEgg and Google can SELL a product, one would assume... at a profit, that contains a WiFi chipset for a few dollars, then it can't cost all that much to license the technology.

It's a matter of scale. If you're only selling a few units, then licensing is probably a significant cost. Ok, so Google probably sells a HUGE number of devices. Let's look smaller: Adafruit lists a module containing both Wifi AND Bluetooth for $8.95. I'd find it hard to believe that Espressif sells more WiFi/Bluetooth chipsets than Neptune sells Apex units

Even the forum you linked to... $4000? $2500? That doesn't seem prohibitive to me! Obviously, Neptune _has_ the ability to embed WiFi in their devices... they do so with the later revision of the Apex, right? They've already licensed the technology. I'd just like to see a lower end version, a new 'Apex Jr', or however they choose to market it, with on board WiFi.

 

[Greybeard]

Are there any reliable temp controllers aside from the controllers we have been discussing? Because in my set-up, the only thing I actually need the controller for is temp control. I dose two-part on a timer, and control my lights. I don't need a full-blown controller at all, which is why I loved the Reefkeeper.

I used Inkbird for many years. Works great... but as RedFishBlueFish mentioned, make sure you get a marine safe probe.

Honestly, the AutoAqua SmartTemp seems a good compromise. $50, no programming necessary, shuts off the heater if temps range outside of 72f - 84f, with an audible alarm. It'd keep a stuck heater thermostat from cooking your reef, anyway.

 

[Falcon53]

I used Inkbird for many years. Works great... but as RedFishBlueFish mentioned, make sure you get a marine safe probe.

Honestly, the AutoAqua SmartTemp seems a good compromise. $50, no programming necessary, shuts off the heater if temps range outside of 72f - 84f, with an audible alarm. It'd keep a stuck heater thermostat from cooking your reef, anyway.

Where are the marine safe probes? Maybe I am using the wrong keywords...

 

[Rcpilot]

You may be better off using that year to find and train a Padawan learner to take care of it while you're away.

I am going to try and meet people. Just moved 2,000 miles. Don't know anyone here yet.

 

[n2585722]

Where are the marine safe probes? Maybe I am using the wrong keywords...

Is there something wrong with your Reefkeeper? If not then it should be good to go until something happens at which time you would have to make a choice on replacing it anyway. I am researching for a replacement for the temp probe. I found one door the salinity probe. I need to order some and test them in the system. It would not have the correct connector
But in the case of the iTemp it is easy to get a RJ12 connector and crimp it on. These are sold at most Home Depot or Lowes stores. The RKE version uses a micro-fit 3.0 connector if I remember correctly. It has been awhile since I ordered them.

 

[mcarroll]

Is there something wrong with your Reefkeeper? If not then it should be good to go until something happens at which time you would have to make a choice on replacing it anyway. I am researching for a replacement for the temp probe. I found one door the salinity probe. I need to order some and test them in the system. It would not have the correct connector
But in the case of the iTemp it is easy to get a RJ12 connector and crimp it on. These are sold at most Home Depot or Lowes stores. The RKE version uses a micro-fit 3.0 connector if I remember correctly. It has been awhile since I ordered them.

I tried a DIY extension cable to allow a 'permanent' PC connection and it was sketchy (wiring pinout was correct, connection was not)....DA warned about this too and highly recommended buying their $20 pack of splitter and cable. I take it there must be a variety of RJ11's and 12's and they chose something extremely specific. Wish I'd taken them up on it since I wasted $5-10 on parts and cable trying to DIY it and STILL don't have a solution.

Any ideas on this? Is a micro-fit 3.0 the secret?

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Bummer. I was expecting this to come. DA parent compay seemed to be dropping support for many years. I have been a RKL user for years and love its low price and functions. I just set up a new tank after a few year break and a RKL, 2 PC4s and SL1 are running the tank. I bought a new temp probe from BRS and it bugs out when plugged in, iTemp probe works great but the new probe for the SL1 is faulty. I also bought a DA float switch kit which works great for an ATO function. Glad I got back into reefing when I did and that I was luck to buy what I needed and download MyReef 2.0 before DA closed down. Maybe in the future I will move to an Apex Classic but for at least the next few years the RKL will work fine, unless I have an issue or win the lottery lol.

 

[n2585722]

I tried a DIY extension cable to allow a 'permanent' PC connection and it was sketchy (wiring pinout was correct, connection was not)....DA warned about this too and highly recommended buying their $20 pack of splitter and cable. I take it there must be a variety of RJ11's and 12's and they chose something extremely specific. Wish I'd taken them up on it since I wasted $5-10 on parts and cable trying to DIY it and STILL don't have a solution.

Any ideas on this? Is a micro-fit 3.0 the secret?

I have been making my own buss cables for some time now. I get the 6 conductor flat cable at Fry's along with the RJ12 connectors. You just have to make sure you wires don't get twisted and that the connector on one end is flipped from the connector on the other end. It would be a good Idea to check them with a ohmmeter to make sure that they are connected the same as a DA buss cable.

Micro-fit 3.0 at Mouser

https://www.mouser.com/new/molex/mo...0AeD9p3qXBL6UtjbS4LMSqRrISAItBNhoCjVAQAvD_BwE

 

[Falcon53]

Is there something wrong with your Reefkeeper? If not then it should be good to go until something happens at which time you would have to make a choice on replacing it anyway. I am researching for a replacement for the temp probe. I found one door the salinity probe. I need to order some and test them in the system. It would not have the correct connector
But in the case of the iTemp it is easy to get a RJ12 connector and crimp it on. These are sold at most Home Depot or Lowes stores. The RKE version uses a micro-fit 3.0 connector if I remember correctly. It has been awhile since I ordered them.

No, nothing wrong. But I have had the unit for like 8 years already, and have had one temp probe fail, which was the only problem I've ever had with it. I also have an unopened temp probe if the current one fails, but obviously I won't have the thing forever. I'm more concerned with planning ahead for when the thing becomes unusable rather than scrambling.

 

[n2585722]

No, nothing wrong. But I have had the unit for like 8 years already, and have had one temp probe fail, which was the only problem I've ever had with it. I also have an unopened temp probe if the current one fails, but obviously I won't have the thing forever. I'm more concerned with planning ahead for when the thing becomes unusable rather than scrambling.

You can probably pick up a used RKL fairly cheap and get a head unit and PB4 or PC4 as spares. May even come with a working temp probe. That way you can have them ready if for some reason something needs to be replaced.

I have the following

1 Archon head unit
1 RKE head unit
3 HUB modules
3 SL2 modules
1 SLX module
2 SW5 modules
7 PC4 modules
2 PB4 modules
1 NET module
1 RD1 module
1 PC1 module
1 SL1 module
2 SID modules

I think I am pretty well set even if I setup my second tank before changing to another controller. I plan on waiting till one comes out with wireless buss instead of running cables between modules. EKoral has wireless power bars, but not much info has been released to how to program and such.

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

There are other options too.

EKoral hasn’t been mentioned but looks like a nice product. At $650 to start it is expensive IMO.

GHL Profilux series gets lots of good reviews. Also expensive to start at around $600 I believe.

Reef Angel (which I use) starts at $400 for the new Star controller.

I’m personally the most excited about the hobbyist made DIY controllers. It just needs someone willing to give it a push to get it out there for commercial consumption.

None meet the sub $200 price point.

I'm super interested in doing development for DIY kits. I just don't have the hardware side down. The probes are confusing to me as they use a multitude of connection styles instead of a standard like BNC. It's also disappointing there aren't probes for the tests we need (calcium, mag, etc) but I understand that's probably not easy from a chemistry standpoint haha. I'd love to write a web portal that offers Apex-style functionality -- that part is my domain. The embedded systems and data collection is beyond me though.

 

[Servillius]

I'm super interested in doing development for DIY kits. I just don't have the hardware side down. The probes are confusing to me as they use a multitude of connection styles instead of a standard like BNC. It's also disappointing there aren't probes for the tests we need (calcium, mag, etc) but I understand that's probably not easy from a chemistry standpoint haha. I'd love to write a web portal that offers Apex-style functionality -- that part is my domain. The embedded systems and data collection is beyond me though.

Can we be honest about it. Apex style functionality is archaic. It would be easier if they reverted to Basic. The programming is archaic.

That’s not really why I don’t use em. I’ve learned the language so it’s not a problem. My main complaint there is that while in theory they’re great, in practice they’re unreliable. The number of times mine froze for days while I tried to beg for customer service help was just too much.

If you’re doing this, and you should, let’s aim higher!

 

[i_declare_bankruptcy]

Can we be honest about it. Apex style functionality is archaic. It would be easier if they reverted to Basic. The programming is archaic.

That’s not really why I don’t use em. I’ve learned the language so it’s not a problem. My main complaint there is that while in theory they’re great, in practice they’re unreliable. The number of times mine froze for days while I tried to beg for customer service help was just too much.

If you’re doing this, and you should, let’s aim higher!

I've never used an Apex so I don't know how reliable it is. All I mean is some kind of web portal with readouts of your parameters on a chart or CSV download to start. Then get into controls, etc. I like a good UX so if it's archaic it won't be that way. Would use a modern framework probably Angular 4+. If someone is willing to take on the challenge of the hardware side and getting the modules connected via wifi, I can create a solution that allows the module to speak to the web server and handle all the data aggregation, etc.

 

[TheEngineer]

I'm super interested in doing development for DIY kits. I just don't have the hardware side down. The probes are confusing to me as they use a multitude of connection styles instead of a standard like BNC. It's also disappointing there aren't probes for the tests we need (calcium, mag, etc) but I understand that's probably not easy from a chemistry standpoint haha. I'd love to write a web portal that offers Apex-style functionality -- that part is my domain. The embedded systems and data collection is beyond me though.

Check out the reef-pi thread that @Ranjib started.

 

[Sunny Goold]

I bought a RKL after watching BRS's vid on using one in place of a heater controller and basic light timers. Made sense to me... I'd never had a controller before, but it seemed worth a try.

Last November, about six months in, my RKL had been expanded by adding another PB4, and I was using it for several things I'd never really considered before. Then... it wigged out. Equipment quit turning on and off on schedule... it left my heater stuck 'on'... communication between the base and the 2 PB4's would fail for no apparent reason. No support, email was being returned as undeliverable, no phone numbers anywhere on the website... Noting.

I bought an Apex Classic, and sold the RKL. Cheap. To a LFS that _knew_ it had been screwing up.

The Apex is most certainly not any more difficult to use than the RKL was. It's much more advanced, capable of a great deal that the RKL was not capable of... but, you don't have to use that stuff. Instead of plugging in a USB cable, you have to get it on your network, point your browser at it, but as long as you can do that, it's not terribly much different from setting up the RKL, at least not until you start wanting to use some of the more advanced features.

So far, my Apex Classic has been rock solid, and I'm doing far more with it than the RKL was capable of, even when it worked.

Price? RKL was what, $129, right? That's with 4 outlets. Add a PB4, that's another hundred bucks. Add a pH probe, you've added another hundred. Add the rather questionable 'net' module and an SL1 so you can hook up a float switch or two, and you're approaching the price of the Apex Classic, which already has all of that stuff, and is capable of so much more.

I do believe that there's room in the market for an under $200 low end Apex... perhaps a new revision of the Apex Jr. Built in wireless, pH and Temp probes, and a single EB4. Probably sell like hotcakes. Maybe once they get the Trident released You listening, Neptune?

I agree 200%

 

[Fourthwind]

I hated seeing this. The RKL was perfect for my application. Temp control, timer for protein skimmer, and pump pause for feeding. Have three tanks running this way, and now have a temp probe failed. Cannot afford to replace with new system. Sucks for sure.