Removed Skimmer - Coral Coloration Increased

[Dan_P]

Interesting. If everything remained constant as before (same food input etc) why would turning on the skimmer not lead to the corals browning out to the same environment they were brown at prior?

What do think about this? IF the info below is true, then removing a device that removes organic matter, aka, nutrients, would increase nutrients. I am grasping here but thought it would be fun

#2: Coral is Turning Brown​

The Cause: Corals typically turn brown as a result of the overproduction of zooxanthellae (a type of algae) inside of a corals tissue. As zooxanthellae levels increase, they block the coral’s natural pigments causing them to turn brown. This is typically caused by:

1. High levels of nutrients, like nitrates and phosphates. These nutrients act as a food source for zooxanthellae resulting in their overproduction.

 

[Miami Reef]

What do think about this? IF the info below is true, then removing a device that removes organic matter, aka, nutrients, would increase nutrients. I am grasping here but thought it would be fun

#2: Coral is Turning Brown​

The Cause: Corals typically turn brown as a result of the overproduction of zooxanthellae (a type of algae) inside of a corals tissue. As zooxanthellae levels increase, they block the coral’s natural pigments causing them to turn brown. This is typically caused by:

1. High levels of nutrients, like nitrates and phosphates. These nutrients act as a food source for zooxanthellae resulting in their overproduction.

Oof! Hmmm. ;Pompus

Something is definitely not adding up here. It’s also normal for new corals to be more brown, and color up over time.

I do agree with you. I don’t think the skimmer had much causation. Correlation =/= causation.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Dan_P

I just looked over the thread. I assumed Dana said brown corals turned more colorful, but I actually don’t see anywhere in this thread that says this.

Dana appears to have said that coloration has slightly improved. He never said it got darker, lighter etc.

So if he means that the coral coloration got richer (color is very subjective) I will believe that the high nutrients from closing the skimmer had an effect.

I apologize for misinterpreting and saying that his brown corals turned more colorful. I was just projecting on what my definition of “more colorful” is. Lol.

I do have a strong preference to pastel acros.

 

[hart24601]

What do think about this? IF the info below is true, then removing a device that removes organic matter, aka, nutrients, would increase nutrients. I am grasping here but thought it would be fun

#2: Coral is Turning Brown​

The Cause: Corals typically turn brown as a result of the overproduction of zooxanthellae (a type of algae) inside of a corals tissue. As zooxanthellae levels increase, they block the coral’s natural pigments causing them to turn brown. This is typically caused by:

1. High levels of nutrients, like nitrates and phosphates. These nutrients act as a food source for zooxanthellae resulting in their overproduction.

while I still think this can happen, it seems to have been a bit exaggerated for many years. Mariculture and wild acros seem more applicable but in the past 5 years or so there has been a trend to much higher nutrients, including Hans evolution of target phosphate levels to 0.1, and most of the time it seems to deepen colors.

it is a bit odd, but my absolute worst coloration of brown was when I accidentally let my clams totally deplete phosphate from the system. It took me a while to sort it out because I didn’t think it was possible.

 

[Subsea]

Not all tanks are the same...
I used to know a hanz I think. Grew coral in a greenhouse lol.
That's not u is it?!
Lol
D

Quite a few people I know grow coral outdoors. Yes I grew coral in a greenhouse. At one time, 10K gallons in greenhouse was coupled to ten 150G Rubbermade tubs countersunk in ground

 

[jda]

I have been in too many skimmer threads in the last year, so I will just keep this short. This is probably not about the skimmer... in order to know for sure, you need to put it back on the tank, see the color get worse, then take it back off and see it improve again. Skimming is not necessary, but what it does needs to happen in some other form or you will have trouble over the years - anybody can do well without a skimmer for a while. Those are not hard corals to keep or color, so you should be able to get good color out of them with nearly any method or else you might be doing something wrong.

Separate the residual building blocks from available types and look to supply the available types. I type this over and over and over, but I expect Dana at least to know that corals DO NOT NEED nitrate, rather they need nitrogen... so buildup on the back end is nearly meaningless.

 

[Dan_P]

But Dana is a scientist!

I know, but so I am.

Let’s recap. Dana reported an observation: skimmer disconnected followed by coral color is better. Dan postulates coloration is not likely connected to the skimmer disconnection. Dan explains why he is dubious about such observations in general.

I think we wait for further observations because otherwise we could just be spinning our wheels, though I kinda like spinning my wheels literally and metaphorically

 

[Mellotang]

too much wheel Spinning results in minimal forward progress and eventual blow out!

Lol
be careful

 

[jda]

I am not a scientist either, but is there a name for the paradigm where the last thing that people did made a bunch of difference, in their minds, but it was actually the time that accrued that made the difference and not the thing?

In this case, if the corals and tank was just at the right stage to mature and he unplugged a heater, then unplugging the heater would have been the magic thing, right?

This needs a name. Last Thing Syndrome? Extremum Aliquid Syndrome is what I am going to call it. ...it sounds better in latin.

 

[hart24601]

I am not a scientist either, but is there a name for the paradigm where the last thing that people did made a bunch of difference, in their minds, but it was actually the time that accrued that made the difference and not the thing?

In this case, if the corals and tank was just at the right stage to mature and he unplugged a heater, then unplugging the heater would have been the magic thing, right?

This needs a name. Last Thing Syndrome? Extremum Aliquid Syndrome is what I am going to call it. ...it sounds better in latin.

there are a whole host of confirmation bias that can be applied here, for and against his observation and pro and con skimmer.

People overall have a tendency to seek information that confirms their existing beliefs and as you pointed out this might be the last thing they alter, or perhaps it can be the belief something is needed, like a skimmer would be an example of conservative bias, the tendency to insufficiently revise one’s beliefs when presented with new evidence.

of course we all experience these and one of the trickiest is the tendency to see oneself as less biased than other people, or to be able to identify more cognitive biases in others than in oneself.

I also notice in forums the fallacy of appealing to authority happens frequently. Many people online can phrase their opinion in very convincing ways and lead the reader to assume they are an expert I. Just about every area where they post - a Phd of everything! It can be hard to weed those out.

 

[Midrats]

Phd of everything, well said. Reminds me of the old Gilbert Gottfried joke: What do you get when you cross a genius with a prostitute?

 

[92Miata]

I am not a scientist either, but is there a name for the paradigm where the last thing that people did made a bunch of difference, in their minds, but it was actually the time that accrued that made the difference and not the thing?

In this case, if the corals and tank was just at the right stage to mature and he unplugged a heater, then unplugging the heater would have been the magic thing, right?

This needs a name. Last Thing Syndrome? Extremum Aliquid Syndrome is what I am going to call it. ...it sounds better in latin.

It's an informal fallacy:

Post hoc ergo propter hoc - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[tvan]

Just to be clear that does not prove one is better than the other it is just extolling the benefits of surface agitation.

In any case whether surface agitation or skimmers provide more gas exchange is not always the same answer. Common sense tells us that surface area, tank size, skimmer size, etc are all factors that would impact that.

What is clear is that the vast majority of reef tanks are not completely aerated(not saying they need to be however). If gas exchange is the goal though then you clearly get more with a skimmer than without....again though whether that additional aeration is needed is another question entirely and likely largely dependent on other factors.

Since the Berlin system was introduced conjecture about bubbles in the skimmer are said to do just about anything, then reefers figured out the live rock was doing the heavy lifting. However the problem begins with bubble size and contact time in the skimmer. As a matter of fact lighting produces a rise in dissolved oxygen(Eric Borneman). Again I have a skimmer on my 50 gallon it does it's function well removing protein. I also wave makers moving water within the tank. I do not fear turning off the skimmer 24 hours +. The wave makers on the other hand would be an issue......

 

[GARRIGA]

Provide a filter with enough media to perform both nitrification and denitrification along with surface agitation and I fail to grasp the need for a skimmer. Came to this conclusion in the mid 90s when I was supposed to be selling skimmers to LFS and came to fully understand the Berlin Method.

BTW, I’ve done just that and I carbon dose because I’ve come to conclusion that trapping detritus doesn’t provide the necessary carbon yet have no issue with cloudy water. It’s a young experimental tank therefore no corals yet but focus is validating I can manage nutrients without much fuzz or equipment.

Perhaps as it matures I can reduce carbon dosing or eliminate it completely. Early on it was maintaining low levels of nitrates and phosphates without it.

As for nitrates on the backend. I’m coming to the conclusion as others have that so long as nitrogen is provided then nitrates aren’t needed. Heavy feeding should solve that but won’t be able to confirm until corals are introduced. Baby steps.