Reverse engineering All-For-Reef?

[Doctorgori]

I just did a search on this and came up zilch, (bad keywords maybe)
Anyway has anyone else searched/researched this or any DIY versions and if so what do you have? …. I’m pretty sure this isn't a original thought
… RHF ( or any other IQ’s ) you folks got any clue or has the Illuminati paid you off?

 

[Reefing102]

I want to say one of BRS’s DIY kits is close but I don’t recall which one. I’m sure others can point you in the right direction

 

[Doctorgori]

I want to say one of BRS’s DIY kits is close but I don’t recall which one. I’m sure others can point you in the right direction

Yeah saw that I think but I thought the BRS thing was the liquid stuff plus the trace et et … anyway cheaper and off the shelf being my particular quest here …

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

AFR is calcium formate plus a variety of other elements. Calcium formate alone provides the calcium and you can address other elements as needed.

 

[Hooz]

There is a DiY All for Reef kit on BRS. Just buy the things you want and leave out what you don't. They came out with this DiY kit before you could just buy the AFR powder and mix it yourself.

That begs the question, though... What part don't you want?

 

[amoore311]

I doubt you'd be able to make your own AFR for cheaper than you can buy the powdered mix.

And yes a 1 part all in one additive with alk/ca/mag/trace has not been done by anyone before to my knowledge, i've been a hobbyist for 19 years.

Plenty of others have used calcium formate, bundling the trace elements into the single solution was the key part of the "secret sauce" for AFR that made it so popular.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I doubt you'd be able to make your own AFR for cheaper than you can buy the powdered mix.

And yes a 1 part all in one additive with alk/ca/mag/trace has not been done by anyone before to my knowledge, i've been a hobbyist for 19 years.

Plenty of others have used calcium formate, bundling the trace elements into the single solution was the key part of the "secret sauce" for AFR that made it so popular.

I agree that calcium formate cost has always been the problem.

Salifert All In One has been around a long time. The drawback to calcium acetate (its main ingredient) is it ties an organic carbon dosing effect to alk and calcium dosing.

 

[Doctorgori]

AFR is calcium formate plus a variety of other elements. Calcium formate alone provides the calcium and you can address other elements as needed.

I’m assuming there isn’t a cheap Ms Wages pickling lime equivalent for calcium formate available at Walmart then LoL.. Sounds chem supply expensive then …

There is a DiY All for Reef kit on BRS. Just buy the things you want and leave out what you don't. They came out with this DiY kit before you could just buy the AFR powder and mix it yourself.

That begs the question, though... What part don't you want?

the part that cost money LOL … being frugal and giving in to the DIY spirit… probably a lil mad scientist in all of us ..
but yeah I got 4 tanks and the AFR is expensive but appealing not just for simplicity but also adding in the cost of replacing my broke Neptune DOS and/ or getting RedSea “ReefDose” is making me look for 2pt alternatives…
…basically I don’t want to add another doser if I can help it

edit add: does anyone have thought of dosing Kalkwasser to maybe bridge the gap or offset some of the expense of AFR? Just thinking of solution that involve the avg 2 part doser. Or is Kalkwasser and AFR not compatible?

 

[KrisReef]

I just did a search on this and came up zilch, (bad keywords maybe)
Anyway has anyone else searched/researched this or any DIY versions and if so what do you have? …. I’m pretty sure this isn't a original thought
… RHF ( or any other IQ’s ) you folks got any clue or has the Illuminati paid you off?

Great guess work! The Illuminati do have me on the payroll and that’s the only way I can afford the hobby anymore.

I always dream of living on a tropical island with a deep ocean water system to run my tanks on 24/7. No more water changes and messing around testing my parameters.

 

[amoore311]

I’m assuming there isn’t a cheap Ms Wages pickling lime equivalent for calcium formate available at Walmart then LoL.. Sounds chem supply expensive then …

the part that cost money LOL … being frugal and giving in to the DIY spirit… probably a lil mad scientist in all of us ..
but yeah I got 4 tanks and the AFR is expensive but appealing not just for simplicity but also adding in the cost of replacing my broke Neptune DOS and/ or getting RedSea “ReefDose” is making me look for 2pt alternatives…
…basically I don’t want to add another doser if I can help it

edit add: does anyone have thought of dosing Kalkwasser to maybe bridge the gap or offset some of the expense of AFR? Just thinking of solution that involve the avg 2 part doser. Or is Kalkwasser and AFR not compatible?

if you are trying to supplement alk/calcium on the cheap.... kalkwasser is the first place you go, just about every single time. The only time you don't go to kalkwasser is when you don't have room to put the reservoir to hold it.

My 220 Acro tank is wall to wall corals and the mineral demand is still taken care of by kalkwasser alone.

 

[Treefer32]

I've lost tanks to Kalkwasser, accidently dumping in too much at once. I'm a bit gunshy of going to Kalkwasser, but I tried AFR and had negative effects on my corals. Tank just didn't seem right. Corals lost color and things became drab. I went back to my normal dosing regimen. I do 3 part.

Buy and Bake Baking Soda and dose that on a doser for alk
I buy the 7 lb bags of calcium chloride from BRS and dose that (equal parts to what I dose alk).
I buy the Magnesium Chloride 7 lb bag and Magnesium Sulfate from BRS and dose that ) Each of these easily last me 6-7 months, maybe longer. Much cheaper on a monthly basis than AFR.

I then dose red sea trace elements and Chaeto grow weekly. My algae turf scrubber ran into issues, I determined it was depleting trace elements rapidly. So, I am now dosing Chaeto grow which contains trace elements for algae. And then Red Sea A, B, C, D trace elements (Includes Iron, Iodine, Potassium, Boron, Manganese, and others).

Since switching back to the Red Sea regimen, the corals are so much brighter in color and just look healthier than AFR.

For PH reasons, I should try pickling lime again. But, I'm gun shy after having it massacer fish and corals within a couple hours. My pump stuck on or something and fed in 3 gallons of kalkwasser to a 55 gallon display. Came home to a white cloud of death. I was able to save a couple fish, the one or two that were still alive, literally looked for the net and swam into it. They were waging their bets on a net vs. the cloud of death they were in. I had to start over after that. Ammonia went off the scale hitting over 15 a few days later.

 

[amoore311]

I've lost tanks to Kalkwasser, accidently dumping in too much at once.

Well you will lose tanks to accidentally dumping too much of pretty much anything into the tank. Salt mix, afr, freshwater, sodium bicarbonate, etc, etc.

 

[Treefer32]

Well you will lose tanks to accidentally dumping too much of pretty much anything into the tank. Salt mix, afr, freshwater, sodium bicarbonate, etc, etc.

Very good point, I knew so little back then. I feel like I've earned a bachelors in plumbing, dosing, marine biology, electricity, and marine-reefonomics, and so much more. Heh. Probably should try pickling lime again.

 

[c_ronius]

I have used Carbo Calcium (calcium formate) since it's introduction a few years ago. I have always dosed Kalkwasser at night, and to me it is the perfect marriage. Kalk alone can not keep up with my growth, so I dose Carbo Calcium during the day.

It is a little hard to deal with testing, as the results take a few days to show up. But no big deal. Once dialed in, I have never had such stable alk.

Before I had to just take down my tank due to a bad seam, I was dosing kalk all night, and about 50ml of Carbo Calcium during the day. PH ran between 8.25-8.35. I also dose the other parts that make it "All for reef", but only very minimally if I have delayed a water change.

You only need one doser, no reactor... I don't understand why it hasn't completely taken over the hobby.

 

[Doctorgori]

I have used Carbo Calcium (calcium formate) since it's introduction a few years ago. I have always dosed Kalkwasser at night, and to me it is the perfect marriage. Kalk alone can not keep up with my growth, so I dose Carbo Calcium during the day.

It is a little hard to deal with testing, as the results take a few days to show up. But no big deal. Once dialed in, I have never had such stable alk.

Before I had to just take down my tank due to a bad seam, I was dosing kalk all night, and about 50ml of Carbo Calcium during the day. PH ran between 8.25-8.35. I also dose the other parts that make it "All for reef", but only very minimally if I have delayed a water change.

You only need one doser, no reactor... I don't understand why it hasn't completely taken over the hobby.

yeah given the price of dosers, I’m not trying to add anymore hardware to my tanks than I have to, so like you I’m trying to solve 6 issues: ($$$, pH, Alk, Ca, Mg and trace) with 2 things: (AFR & Kalk) …amongst things that worry me are the cost of AFR and the latency in the readings using AFR …

I dunno, BRS Ryan and that Tropic Marin guy are making way too many vids together, they look way to happy and I’m not comfortable LOL … maybe we need to send Randy back to Walmart and see if his alchemy skills “can stop the powers that be” …
LOL. Appreciate all the recipes Randy!!!

 

[c_ronius]

Carbo Calcium is cheap when you buy the 1400g dry powder. I don't buy into too much of what BRS has to say, but I listen to Lou.

 

[Doctorgori]

Carbo Calcium is cheap when you buy the 1400g dry powder. I don't buy into too much of what BRS has to say, but I listen to Lou.

Odd never saw that stuff, so then this stuff makes up the bulk of AFR? I’m gonna research a lil more then and compare per gallon cost vs AFR’s $80 price tag

 

[bobnicaragua]

When kalkwasser couldn’t keep up with my SPS load anymore, I started dosing carbo calcium along with the kalkwasser. It worked fine at first, but I’m on the moonshiners method, so no water changes. Calcium eventually got too high, so I switched to 3 part & kalkwasser. Now I have control over my calcium level. I doubt there would’ve been an issue if I was doing regular water changes.

 

[c_ronius]

When kalkwasser couldn’t keep up with my SPS load anymore, I started dosing carbo calcium along with the kalkwasser. It worked fine at first, but I’m on the moonshiners method, so no water changes. Calcium eventually got too high, so I switched to 3 part & kalkwasser. Now I have control over my calcium level. I doubt there would’ve been an issue if I was doing regular water changes.

Interesting. I change water regularly. Calcium always in range.

 

[areefer01]

yeah given the price of dosers, I’m not trying to add anymore hardware to my tanks than I have to, so like you I’m trying to solve 6 issues: ($$$, pH, Alk, Ca, Mg and trace) with 2 things: (AFR & Kalk) …amongst things that worry me are the cost of AFR and the latency in the readings using AFR …

What size display are you talking about and what is the estimated daily dose? Have you calculated that yet then done any match to see how long a $75 dollar 1600 gram container of powder will last you?

Latency readings are not a issue. You get the water parameters where you want them to start then calculate your daily dose and go. Similar approach to dosing other things. Go slow, start lower, and usually everything is peachy.

I dunno, BRS Ryan and that Tropic Marin guy are making way too many vids together, they look way to happy and I’m not comfortable LOL … maybe we need to send Randy back to Walmart and see if his alchemy skills “can stop the powers that be” …
LOL. Appreciate all the recipes Randy!!!

TM AFR has been out for a while. Liquid first I believe and the general consensus at the time was that it was better suited for nano, smaller tanks, due to the cost. BRS produced a video whereas Zac (I think it was his name) took off Tropic Marin products and created the DIY recipe. I'm not sure if he put it together or worked with Tropic Marin. This brought the price down and people started to use it for larger systems. Myself included not that it matters. Somewhere in between all of this Tropic Marin created the powder formula and sold it in Europe. It finally made its way to the US and elsewhere which I'd guess most use.

The reason for this wall of text is to say TM fully supported the DIY component videos and work on creating a powder version to lower the cost even further. It has nothing to do with the videos you are seeing with BRS and X vendor. They do them with Tidal Gardens, Marine Collectors, and more.

TL: DR - juice probably isn't worth the squeeze trying to DIY using non TM products. Calculate your daily dose using the 1600g powder and see if it works. If it still seems too high then look at the DIY 2/3 part kits from RHF.